Boundaries Or Secrecy? Setting Phone Rules In Marriage

Your phone can be a calendar, a camera, a workspace, and a dopamine machine, but it can also become the loudest unspoken argument in a marriage. We go from joking about road trip snacks to a topic that hits a nerve for almost every couple: phone privacy, screen time, and what it means when your partner wants to look or when you feel the need to hide.

We talk through the tension behind “I need boundaries” versus “I’m keeping secrets,” and why those two ideas are not the same. We also name the red flags that show up on both sides: the urge to snoop to calm anxiety, and the urge to guard a device so tightly that trust can’t breathe. Along the way, we connect digital behavior to deeper relationship issues like honesty, insecurity, defensiveness, and control. If you’ve ever felt your heart race when someone picked up your phone, or you’ve ever felt tempted to check a partner’s messages just to feel safe, we give you language to start an awkward but necessary conversation.

Our biggest takeaway is simple but not always easy: the phone isn’t the real problem. Trust is. We share practical questions to ask each other about motivation and end goals, plus how to create a safe space to talk when emotions spike, cool down, and come back to finish the conversation instead of burying it.

If this helps you, subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a review so more couples can find Baggage Claim.

Transcript

Welcome To Baggage Claim

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Hey guys, what's up? I'm Greg. I hope you guys are ready to unpack and get into some good conversations today.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast, Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_06 0:16

What's up, everybody? Welcome to Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us today, tonight, whatever it is you're listening. If you're new here, thanks for joining us. If you're a regular, you know the thing. You take a deep breath. Boom. Yeah, because it's been a crazy day.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Is that why you say take a deep breath? No. No. You have a stress ball that says take a deep breath? Yeah, that's one you just threw at me.

SPEAKER_06 0:40

Oh, I did throw it at you and the first time.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Shout out to Jody, gave me some stress balls at our 50th anniversary anniversary. Oh, nice. Episode.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

So baggage claim is a place where we talk about relationships, blended families, marriages, all the stuff in between, and we're hopefully trying to create some conversations, but we're really good at, and maybe some community if you allow us to uh on top of that. So um if you're new here, that's what we're about. If you've been around, you know that, and you know that we're kind of all over the place.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Thank you for continuing to tune in and put up with us.

A Simple Tool For Deeper Talks

SPEAKER_06 1:16

Yeah, still thank you for uh putting up with all this fun stuff that we do. Um but um before we get started, I just want to say uh A Year of Us, the book, um it's a couple's journey. You don't have to it says couples journal, but we didn't really journal in it, we didn't use it though. I don't think the question was. We started to begin. We just we just talk about it. But now we're we just ask questions and just have fun with it. So if you're looking for uh because I had one of our listeners ask, hey, we we're good at conversations, but we're not good at having those so good at having those deep conversations, asking those questions that revoke some responses until we get into the moment. Yeah, but this is this is a great book. Uh if you're not watching and you just um want to see it's called A Year of Us. It's a really cool book. Alicia Alicia Munez. Sorry. And so it's a it's a really cool book. Make sure you grab it. Uh it's a good way just to start talking about the case.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Some of the questions are silly, some of them are really thought-provoking, and those those all of them, no matter what category they fall in, lead to some really good conversation.

SPEAKER_06 2:21

Yeah. And so, I mean, our our biggest thing here, and we talk about it all the freaking time on baggage claim, is that if we want to have a great relationship, have good communication. And so you gotta have the conversation if you want to have some some good communication, and communication is not just talking. No, it's also listening.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

But tonight's questions don't come from the book that we were.

SPEAKER_06 2:43

No, they do not come from the book, they come from our producer Michael. Uh had a question because we're talking about he goes, I got a question. I do got a question. Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

We got lots of questions.

SPEAKER_06 2:53

I know. But the one specific Hey, are you not doing your little question, Tom Sing singing?

SPEAKER_02 2:57

We all are, not you, y'all. One, two, three. You ready? Question ten.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

That was the worst one yet. I apologize. That was bad.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Also, all of us.

Road Trip Snacks And Travel Stories

SPEAKER_04 3:10

Anyhow, doesn't matter because we're gonna ask a question. Yep. Um, the question this week, pardon me, is uh what is your go-to road trip snack? You're you're you're heading down the road. You're just, I mean, I'm thinking of like for me, I always go down to Florida, just getting out of Atlanta, you hit that Love's truck stop, you know what I mean? What do you get? I hit you at Buckeys, man.

unknown 3:33

Bucky's.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Yeah, Buckeys, but it's a lot further south. You gotta like wait. You always gotta stop. I will I'm gonna be honest, I will stop at Loves and Okay, so I feel like it's two different answers.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

Regular gas station versus your Buckies answer.

SPEAKER_06 3:46

Okay, Buckeys is different because it's kind of halfway between here and Pitsacola. Yeah. So we stop at Penzi's. I definitely have two different answers. Okay, go ahead, then give it to me.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

My Buckies have to have, you have to get a fountain soda. Yep. Dr. Pepper for me. And then my um is the beaver nuggets. Is that the real word?

SPEAKER_06 4:07

I think it is. I always call them beaver nuts. And you get mad at me, but it's the it's the uh Oh, it's those like corn puff things. Yeah, the corn puff things, yeah. They're delicious.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Oh man. From buckets.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Is it like popcorn? Or is it like a oh, it's like that cereal, the old school cereal.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

They're giant. Yeah. And it's like, but the coating, there's a coating that's like candy.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

So when I was a kid, I could smack some of that stuff down.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Next time you go. And then also I have to get the cookies, the Bucky's cookies. I don't even know what they're called, but they're like sweet and salty at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 4:43

Little bitty, uh, little bitty round yellow cookies.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

Those are good. We're talking like the ones that come in the tin cans at Christmas, are you? No, they're a little different than that.

SPEAKER_06 4:53

They kind of look like that, but they're they don't taste like that at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

They're just uh So that's my Bucky snack. My regular gas station snack is still uh Dr. Pepper, and then um sweet tart ropes. Yes. And then a lot of the time it's some kind of checks mix.

SPEAKER_06 5:08

It's true.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Mm-hmm sweet tart rope.

SPEAKER_06 5:11

We do share checks mix, but the problem is checks mix sometimes you just you grab a handful and it's like you just chewed on a rock. Yeah. Something's like really hard and it just like catches you off guard.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

I'm interested for your answer because I it changes.

SPEAKER_06 5:23

I like uh I try to keep it spicy.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

It's your bucky snack.

SPEAKER_06 5:27

Oh, to keep it spicy, to keep it spicy brisket snacks.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Well, that's not a snack. That's not a snack.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

That's not because it's at a gas station, it's a snack. No. Dude, you can get a full meal bucky snack. I don't know what that means. I just that's a snack.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Telling you a bucket sausage biscuit is the best biscuit I've ever had.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

Breakfast Buckies.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

I think the best biscuit I've ever had in my biscuit.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

I'd also much rather drive through the night than in the morning, so I don't think I've ever had a breakfast on the road.

SPEAKER_06 5:57

If you get a chance to get breakfast of buckies, get it. It's worth it.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Okay. I'm ready for your answers, though.

SPEAKER_06 6:03

Anything gummy.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

I do love you some gummy lifesavers.

SPEAKER_06 6:07

I'm a gummy guy. Like I may I may vary from like the lifesavers to if I find something else gummy there that I'll get to the game.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Remember the time you found gummy jolly ranchers? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

That was their friend. Delicious. But it also depends because some gummies are really good. Yeah. You get a good quality gummy worm or something like that. Because I'm a gummy worm guy.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

And sometimes they're slimy.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

I love gummies. Sean Ryan's staying vigilant.

SPEAKER_06 6:29

Chewy, yeah. Vigilance. No, I remember. If you're out there, I'd like to have some gummies. I know he's probably like, well, go online and buy them then. What? Jerk. Sean Ryan has gummies. Oh. Gives every one of his guests that come on. Oh. And you can buy them a vigilance. Apparently they're really good gummies.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Whenever we have guests, I can also get some gummy worms as well.

SPEAKER_06 6:56

Away. A pistol, a cig.

unknown 6:59

Freak that.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

He does, yeah. When we go on there. I'm sorry. When we go on there, I'm w I'm going with I'm going to the shooting range with Sean Ryan when we go on his show.

SPEAKER_06 7:11

Monday we'll be on his show. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

He's gonna be so impressed that I'm such a good shot. All I know is if you ever get called to be on the Sean Ryan show, we have to take our producer with you. The producer has to go with you. And it's just a mandatory. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Okay, Michael, I'm ready for your answers.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

First off, I used to do road trips all the time. Like back when I was in college and I played and I traveled and did stuff all the time. So like I had a go-to.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

And also growing up as a kid. Yeah, growing up as a kid, I always do.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

So like back in the day, because now my go-to, it could really be anything, whatever I'm feeling, which would be more like a kit cat and maybe like a Mountain Dew or something.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Mountain Dew.

SPEAKER_04 7:49

Oh buddy. Um but like back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

I'm so settled. I just gave my reaction.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

I'm so glad you're as settled as you are, Jess. Um no, like back in the day it would be Gummy Worms, but the thing I don't remember the brand because it was a specific brand, and I would only get that brand because they were a lot softer, like they were a better gummy worm.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

If Aaron Grace was in here, she would probably say it's a Haribo. The Haribo brand has always been her favorite gummy worm. It may have been, actually. No matter what shape it is, those are the guys. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

But uh, no, then I would also, uh, and this was me when I was in high school and I felt like I was so cool. You could get the uh like the dip cans of beef jerky. Oh yes, I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

When I would drive through the night, dude, I used to tear those things we used to put those at Thomas and Cody's stockings when they were growing up when they were teenagers.

SPEAKER_06 8:39

When we would get when we would do road trips with the family in summer, like our summer trips were like we didn't allow other friends or boyfriends or girlfriends to go on summer vacation. It's like if you're engaged, you can go. If not, stay home. Um that was kind of our rule. So we could spend time with our family. You may think good or bad of it, I don't care. But the boys worked for us. The boys would always get beef jerky, which one it was extremely expensive. Yes. It was like to buy I would spend like$80 on beef. Oh, it's think the van's so bad. Those boys back there would eat everybody.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Having a ball, and our girls would be like I don't think beef jerky smells bad though.

SPEAKER_06 9:18

And I know that's a personal preference, but well, when one of them would always get some weird flavor. Um like the sweet teriyaki.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Yes, every time one of them would do that.

SPEAKER_06 9:29

That one does smell and so it always created some uh fun issues in the in the car on the way to the beach.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Buying road trip snacks for a family of six was like more than a meal would cost in some places.

SPEAKER_06 9:41

Jess and I are doing a road trip this summer, and I'm really excited about it. Going out to Red Rock Canyon for a concert.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Not gonna lie, I'm a little bit jealous of that trip. That's it.

SPEAKER_05 9:50

So you should be.

SPEAKER_06 9:51

So Jess has never really seen a lot of the countryside. So we're gonna load up and drive out there, and everybody's like, oh my gosh, it takes forever. And we're like, yeah, well, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Half the point.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

What's the longest? I know this is going crazy. Uh, what's the longest road trip you've been on?

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Nowhere really. I mean just in the south.

SPEAKER_06 10:07

Constantly driving or distance.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

Or distance, either.

SPEAKER_06 10:11

I've driven to Colorado uh like three or four times, and it takes it l uh 24 hours to drive there. Yeah. If you drive straight. Um, I did a road trip from here all the way to Maine one time. Oh, nice. Uh that was fun. It was really, really cool. I didn't do much driving though. It was a very broken up road trip.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Tennessee.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Oh, like six hours away from here. Maybe one time I went to North Carolina.

SPEAKER_06 10:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Really? Have you not done like many road trips? No.

SPEAKER_06 10:39

So I drove out to Texas one time for uh passion was doing think all one day in the big old field out in Texas, which was so fun.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Um I don't know that I've ever been past Alabama that direction.

SPEAKER_06 10:52

Are you kidding me? Are you serious? What?

SPEAKER_03 10:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 10:54

You've never been past Alabama.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_06 10:57

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

You gotta change that. Well, it's gonna change the summer.

SPEAKER_06 11:00

Yeah, we're going everywhere. We're stopping at all the fun stuff too.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Yeah, that's where I'm like the idea, our friends are like, oh my god, that'll take forever. I'm like, that's part of the point because I haven't seen a lot of that stuff. I've flown over it a couple of times, but I've never like seen it.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

Uh when I was in college, we did a conference out in uh Utah, in uh Leighton, Utah, and uh it was a 43 straight hour drive. We put a bed in the back and just rotate because we were driving all the gear out. And Calvin and I just like six hour shifts just back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

No, I'm gonna be back on my hotels.com or whatever apps it is that I use when we were in California. On we flew to California and then did a little road trip in California. And I was a queen of finding like cute, cheap hotels.

The Real Topic: Phones And Marriage

SPEAKER_06 11:51

Yeah, it's fun. So that went way way longer. That's okay. But uh hopefully you're still with us. If you're with us and you're like, bro, I thought it was about marriage.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 12:01

Here's you know, here's a little yeah, here's a little marriage tip. We're talking about something really, really fun tonight or today that could either invoke um frustration, um, some good topics are maybe just a eh, it's not a big deal. Um I don't I don't know where you're at. Well, it seems that it hits so many different nerves differently. Yeah, it is it is interesting. But it's a topic we haven't addressed here really at all. We well, we have, but not directly taking it on. Yeah. So we want to talk about your phone. Um the I mean I mean we all get that text on Sunday afternoon. I know you do, or that notification from your phone that says your weekly screen time.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Your screen time this week.

SPEAKER_06 12:46

Whether makes you feel horrible, yeah, it makes you feel like you're the king of the world and I'm the best person there is. Oh wow. Um wherever you fall in between. I've never I've never had that feeling or that thought. I'm just always like, I did that, what? Um that seems unrealistic. Um and so we want to just talk about phones and the role they play in your marriage, the role they play in your family. Um, because if you have kids, um your kids probably have cell phones, and what does that look like? And how do you treat that? How do you treat each other's phones? And what is what is all the fun things in between of is it okay for me to just pick up Jess's phone and scroll through whenever I want? Is it okay for her to pick up my phone or is that off limits? So we're gonna try to dig into and address those issues because something that seems pretty simple could lead to a very, very big deal in in a relationship. And this is part of our baggage claim uh episode. This is in steps, uh the step one part, like up in the one through three. This is the you part because we said it before we got started. We're like, man, if you if Jess picks up my phone and starts to scroll through it and my heart starts racing, I feel like I'm gonna throw up.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

That's a me problem. That's a you problem.

SPEAKER_06 14:02

Like that's a me problem. But if she's snooping around, like when I go to bed, she picks up my phone.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

That's also a me problem because I don't trust you.

SPEAKER_06 14:10

Yeah. So it's like, where do we fall on that? What does that look like? How do we navigate that and how do we do that with kids?

SPEAKER_03 14:16

And as we talk about it, I don't want to come off as like, oh, well, this is easy for us because it's not a thing. Like Greg's face literally opens my phone, and like I know all the passwords and all the things to yours.

SPEAKER_06 14:29

Your password to my phone is the password to my entire life. Like, you know that you can open up absolutely probably everything.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

The one to your phone is a mysterious one that you had forever.

SPEAKER_06 14:39

I had it when I was a teenager, and I don't know if for some reason I've kept it. And it's the only thing. Okay, it is different from every other one in my phone.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

That's the only place that's not our password for a whole life.

SPEAKER_06 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Um probably shouldn't say that out loud.

SPEAKER_05 14:52

No, we're not going to say that out loud.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

But it's sorry. You didn't say the numbers, honey. Oh, okay. You're okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

But yeah. I think one thing that's and and from our perspective, you know, we're obviously hosting this podcast, talking about it. Um, one thing that we constantly talked a lot about during the 50th episode um anniversary was embrace awkward and just talk through it.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Just be able to start the conversation and talk through understanding. Sometimes it's gonna be awkward, but I feel like this is a a topic and a concept that can be so awkward that we never talk about it. Yeah, we just don't.

SPEAKER_06 15:38

So let's you want to address the awkwardness in the room, producer Michael?

SPEAKER_04 15:42

I mean, yeah, I mean I can. I'm I'm fine with that. But I mean, I think yes, there's multiple different things we can talk about, trust. You know, okay, well, but that can go both sides. Okay, well, do you not trust me, so why are you looking through your phone? Or why are you looking through my phone, you don't trust me.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

Well, the other person could just as easily say, Do you not trust me? Why can't I look through your phone?

SPEAKER_06 16:03

Yeah, that that conversation can go both ways. So yeah, there's a lot of people out there who say, No, but those are my boundaries, and that's my private. I need my private time, my boundaries. What's your rebuttal to that?

SPEAKER_03 16:14

You but either one of you like my rebuttal would be like okay.

SPEAKER_06 16:18

Or your thoughts on it, not rebuttal, but your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

I mean, it could be either one. Okay, there's boundaries, but then there's secrecy.

SPEAKER_06 16:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

I feel like a boundary or a boundary is something that you set up like to protect yourself, protect your you know, your mental health or whatever the case may be. This is one of the buzzwords that everybody uses.

SPEAKER_06 16:43

I'm sorry, the way you said it, there was like I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

I didn't mean for it.

SPEAKER_06 16:47

I mean like mental health.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

I didn't mean for it to be that way, but that's the word everybody uses.

SPEAKER_06 16:52

Boundaries you use boundaries think of boundaries as guardrails. They keep you on the road. They keep you kind of in in in the in a s in a safe place. Right. There's guardrails when there's a better way to say really drop-offs or really things are in danger. Guardrails kind of help you keep there. Boundaries are kind of the same way.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Versus secrecy is I don't want you to see what's on my phone.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Roadblocks.

SPEAKER_06 17:13

Yeah. Hindering there you can't see.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

I feel like I mean that's literally the two sides of this whole idea, in my opinion. Okay. I don't mean this.

SPEAKER_06 17:26

Privacy versus boundaries or secrecy. Secrecy versus boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Hold on.

SPEAKER_06 17:32

I don't know what I'm saying. What do you say? You're saying something different? Um You're trying to say something different.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

I'm saying boundaries versus secrecy. Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 17:41

I'm with you. I'm tracking now. Sorry. Yep. You got this. Yep. Sorry. I I was talking to my uh broker today on real estate. I do real estate, and I was like, man, how's your Monday? And she just started dying laughing. I was like, oh yeah, it's Tuesday. Oh god. I was like, well, I tell you where I'm at.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

Today it's been a good Monday, though. Like it's been a great Monday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

My students today in first grade acted like today was Friday. So none of us know what day it is.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

God's what's to wish every day was Friday. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

That'd be such a beautiful thing. It's fun Friday every day.

SPEAKER_06 18:16

So what's the so how do you how do you address that? What does that look like when it comes to a relationship?

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Um I'll just be honest. Like, I feel like sometimes when we talk about things that we've experienced in our life, maybe we come across as like, oh, this is easy. Like there are no boundaries. But honestly, for me, like I I mean, as far as like my phone and what's on my phone, I'm motioning towards it as if you can see it. But like that pick it up, look at it, whatever you want to look at. I don't really have I don't I don't have boundaries as far as that's concerned. Because as as like if text or conversations or something I've seen or something I've looked up or whatever, I'm gonna talk to you about it anyway. Um so for me personally, I don't really have any boundaries when it comes to my phone. I never really have.

SPEAKER_06 19:11

Me? I wish I could get rid of my phone.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Yeah, you hate your phone.

SPEAKER_06 19:14

I literally wish I could take my phone, throw it away, and life would just be fine without it.

SPEAKER_05 19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:18

Like there's probably a lot of people out there who'd be like, you can, but uh I just I really can't, but I wish I could. Yeah. Um because it's just yeah. It's it's a phone a phone now is different than it was years ago. Like it's it's insane what you can do and what one, what you can get into, yeah, and the things you can do. And on a phone, it it scares me. And the fact that we start giving kids and we give them permission to phone so much earlier, it's just scary. It's incredibly scary to me.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

So well, and there's so there's so many, like I said it earlier, this hits so many nerves differently, you know, because I I've talked to friends and and things like that, and they're like, No, I'd never let my girlfriend or my spouse go through my phone. You know, and like for me, for me personally, I don't get that.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Because one, if there's something that I've gotta hide, that means I've gotta constantly have a wall up. I've gotta constantly have a guard up, I've gotta con like that's exhausting to me.

SPEAKER_05 20:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

For me as a girl, that flow that that throws up red flags both ways.

SPEAKER_06 20:31

Yes, I would agree. Like Explain.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

The one side whether I said as a girl, but the one side of I feel like I need to look at your phone so I can know I can trust you. Well, that's a red flag.

SPEAKER_06 20:45

Okay. Yeah. And the other side would be being nosy about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

The other side that's a red flag is why do you need to look through my phone so you can trust me?

SPEAKER_06 20:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

I feel like I mean, I feel like it's a negative either way when it comes to the so I can trust you part.

SPEAKER_06 21:01

Yeah. So the issue is not really the phone.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

I don't think so. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

I think it's a much deeper. And there was something you were mentioning earlier when we were having dinner. Um and I wish I could remember it specifically how you said it, because my thought was you were talking about it's more about trust than it is about being able to see my phone. And my thought was like, okay, but but trust also comes with transparency.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

It sure does. Well, let's take the phones out of the equation and just talk about trust in general.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Like just you and I, Greg, as a scenario. If if the if phones were not a thing. And that's a beautiful world. You remember that world? I do remember that world.

SPEAKER_06 21:44

I loved it. I don't.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 21:46

I show my age, but I remember. I had a bag phone. Hold on.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

So we were getting carried away. So let's just pretend like phones are not a thing and you're in the world doing what you do when I'm at work. Because you work for yourself, you're an entrepreneur, you make your schedule, you literally do you just do what you do. Let's pretend like I don't have a phone to know where your location is or look through when you get home at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_06 22:13

You do you run a three sixty know where I'm at anytime you want, you can look on there too.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

That's a that's another deeply rooted issue.

SPEAKER_06 22:19

Um but yeah, because one time you're like, you're you turned your you turned your locations off on your phone. Like I can't see where you're at, and I'm like, I didn't touch crap on my phone.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Also, your response was I don't even know how to do that.

SPEAKER_06 22:31

Yeah, I was like updated something.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

No, but what I'm saying is at the end of the day when we all get home from work, and I'm thinking to myself, where were you today? Do I do I trust where you said you were this whole work day when I was gone? That would be from uh uh the equivalent of me like picking up your phone, like when you're in a shower in the shower, looking through your text and seeing what you were doing, who you were talking to.

SPEAKER_06 23:01

You don't want to see those texts between me and Michael Mitten or Michael Johnson. No, I don't. You don't want to see those. Just give me like those guys are idiots.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

But I don't know if I'm making that analogy clear enough.

SPEAKER_04 23:13

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. No, I would agree. Because then it does come back to uh just a deeper issue of trust, I think, regardless of if you're listening to this and you're like, man, I'm in the side that's like, man, I don't want her even to look at my phone or or him to look at my phone. Why? You know, and that's what brings up the red flag. And this is why I think just embrace the awkward, embrace that and why like bro, or sis, what are you hiding? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

What is it on your phone that makes your heart rate go up or makes you panic inside if he or she touches your phone? Like that's the bigger issue. Like, what are you hiding? You're not who you say you are, ultimately.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

So, what do you do if that if that is the case for someone?

SPEAKER_03 23:54

You're gonna have to first of all be really honest with yourself.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

How so?

SPEAKER_06 23:58

Which one? Like the one wanting to look or the one who doesn't want him to look?

SPEAKER_03 24:03

The guarding one.

SPEAKER_06 24:03

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

What are you guarding and why?

SPEAKER_06 24:06

I don't think I don't think you've got to ask yourself that question. I think they know the answer to that question. I think you already know the answer.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Well then answer the question. If you already know, answer it and be honest with yourself.

SPEAKER_06 24:17

Yeah. Yeah. Or make a change to why you are.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:21

Like whatever it is that you're being so guarded about, don't don't do that thing.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Right. Don't do that thing. Don't do that. Don't do the thing that makes you feel like that. Yeah. And then on the other side, why do you feel like you need to investigate that they are who they say they are?

SPEAKER_05 24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Whether it be on the phone or in the world, or I mean it could even go as far as computers.

SPEAKER_06 24:43

Like see, some people would say that's a good Lord, we're that far in? What 23 minutes?

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:49

We wasted a lot of time on booking.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

I missed the last one, sorry.

SPEAKER_06 24:53

A lot of people would say it's not a trust issue. It's a it's it's something more. Uh some people would some people would argue that and go, no, it's not trust. It's not that I don't trust them. It's uh I don't blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

I don't know. Maybe a better word might be honesty, because honesty means with your own self also, as well as being honest with the other person. Because being honest with yourself sometimes is the hardest part.

SPEAKER_06 25:21

Yeah, it's probably harder than being honest with somebody else, because you lie to yourself. Your brain makes up stories that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

You make up your own defense mechanisms and well he can't see that because of this, or she she can't know that because she'll think this. Right.

SPEAKER_06 25:35

I mean, okay. Do you have a do you have a thought on that?

What Hiding Does To Your Mind

SPEAKER_04 25:39

No, and I would agree. I was actually my mind was circling something a little outside of that concept. But have you ever been caught in a lie just any time in your life? Okay. How did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Embarrassed.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Well, no, no, okay. So, like in the moment before the truth was revealed, whether there was probing to figure out the truth or whatnot, like how did that make you act every day? Your normal thought processes, how you had to think about how you communicated to hope they didn't find it out.

SPEAKER_06 26:12

Yeah, you're very defensive, you're very yeah, it changes everything about you.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

Yeah, it raises stress levels, it changes emotions, it changes all of these things. And I remember because and I know I've shared this with y'all in the past, but like when I was a kid, like younger, I used to just lie. And it stemmed from me being a people pleaser. And I didn't ever want to do anything that caused someone to dislike what I did. So I would lie a lot. Um, and it's something like dude, my parents we worked through a lot when I was a kid, working through that in my life, and I'm one incredibly grateful that they raised me in such a way to learn what was right and how to not do that. But uh, I remember I lived in such fear all the time.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Oh, yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Yeah, I could see that. You live in fear that someone's gonna figure it out. You you literally and I mentioned it earlier, you you constantly have to have a guard up so you don't spill the beans.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

That's a good point. It feels like it's just extra work rather than being true to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

Well, yes, on a personal level, it takes a lot more effort, a lot more energy to do just everyday things. Like just to simply talk about your day, right? So, why would we put that strain on ourselves?

SPEAKER_06 27:31

It's a good question. I think that's a question. That's a that's a I mean, that's a you question that you gotta dig deep and figure out why am I putting that stress on myself? Why am I doing that to myself? Yeah. But that it's usually because we're broken in some way and we're looking for something else to feel that brokenness.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

And then to cover it up.

Control, Jealousy, And Social Media

SPEAKER_06 27:49

Yeah, it's ultimately what it is. But see, also, too, on the other side of that, I've seen relationships where and it's guys and girls. I just had a conversation with um AJ. He was on here.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Thomas, our son's best friend.

SPEAKER_06 28:04

Yeah, so I got to go hang out with AJ at his apartment in Woodstock um a little bit. And we're just talking about relationships and how they work and just control sometimes. Some relationships love control. Like I've seen relationships where girlfriends or boyfriends would make them go through their Instagram or their social medias and unfriend people that they were threatened by or delete all the pictures that were before them uh that lead up to them, which all of those to me feel like red flags. I'm like, if that pops up, you should be like, wait a minute, what? Like it just those are things that are very interesting. So when we say, like, you may want to see my phone, I'm like, okay, well, why? Wow, what's like well, I didn't I didn't do anything, but you you'd be like, you can see it, but then it's it's it creates a really interesting dynamic. Yeah. Like if you haven't done anything wrong, but I'm asking, in other words, I'm trying to snoop around your phone because I want to see.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

I just want to double check you are who you say you are.

SPEAKER_06 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Because I don't all the way believe you.

SPEAKER_06 29:06

But I always say if people are gonna cheat, they're gonna cheat. Whether you're looking through their phone or they're not looking at their phone, whether they're doing those things, they're gonna do those things. Yeah. Um it just it is what it is. Um that's the that's the crazy part about it. So uh how how do you handle it with your kids? Do we uh we have we even handle ask you how you handle it with each other, but yeah. Um so what's a good let's let's just say this, what's a good ground rule? What's a good base rule to have? I know I listen to a lot of guys who have a very, very hard and fast rule. Like, you can have access to my phone anytime you want it. It's yours to look. If not, we have issues. Yeah. Yeah. Are you okay? Would you say that's a hard and fast rule, or would you say no for your other significant?

SPEAKER_03 29:53

I mean, I'm okay with that. Because you were talking about kids and then Yeah, I was about to.

SPEAKER_06 29:56

Yeah, sorry. So I'm gonna go down the kid route, but I was like, pull the reins back because we hadn't even fully unpacked this left turn yet.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Yeah, my thought is this when it comes to looking at privacy or boundaries, whatever you want to call it. I understand there's ways to have boundaries, but there's so many personal things wrapped up in our phones and communications. I don't think that's a real boundary. Because you're hiding relationships.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

I was just gonna say that's where it crosses the line to secrecy.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Yes. Um, and and I I do get that's that is my opinion. But also at the same time, I think you can have many conversations about this phones, whatever you want to do. It's not about the phone.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

No, it's about trust.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

It has nothing to do with the phone, even if you have an argument about the phone, it's really not about the phone. So my thing is two questions I have is about the heart behind it, meaning the motivation. If you feel so, whether it be in an insecurity, which is not even a wrong thing to have, but if you have a need to feel like you need to go through someone's phone, that shows there's deeper roots that need to be worked out.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

I feel like that's a you thing, not a them thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:14

Yes, but even still, that means it's not about the phone, there's something else that y'all need to work through. Right. If you have an issue showing someone your phone, that also goes to a deeper roots of what it is that you two need to work through.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

It's the same thing we talked to couples about bank accounts, and they're like, no, we don't want to join our bank accounts because it's his money, my money. And I'm like, but you're married.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

But you joined your life.

SPEAKER_06 31:37

Yeah, so you said yes to this woman for the rest of your life, but you won't join your bank accounts? That that's weird to me, bro.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Like that means you each of you get a chance to have a secret against the other one. Yeah, and then that's the problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

Like, why would you want to live your life with someone and not have full transparency?

SPEAKER_05 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Because going back to how do you feel when you gotta feel like you gotta hide stuff, it just adds layers and complexities of emotions and stress and all these things. So for me, it's one, what is the heart behind it? And two, what's the end goal? What are you trying to accomplish? You're not trying to accomplish looking at their phone or keeping them from looking at your phone. You're trying to accomplish trust and relationship between you. Right. So if you look at those focal points, those two main questions, that will help at least start beginning to flush out the conversations of why you do or don't want someone to look at your phone.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

I agree. At least in my thought. And I'm I know there's probably a lot of things that can be added to that, and also things that you can work through, but those are my thoughts.

SPEAKER_06 32:57

Wow. Okay. I can get on those.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

You briefly brought up about kids with phones, but I feel like that's a different conversation.

SPEAKER_06 33:04

Yeah, I sort of say, like, I mean, we're we're so far into this, yeah. I don't feel like we could address that in a way that I feel like would be helpful for anyone. Um, but we will address the issue of phones and kids and your role and what does that look like? How does that work?

SPEAKER_03 33:21

I mean, at least we can talk to you about what we did and what worked for our family. Um I say what worked for our family, that doesn't mean it looks like pleasant the year.

SPEAKER_06 33:30

What does work mean? Yeah. Like um, yeah, it's uh uh that's a whole man, that's a whole different ball game. And it's a it's a big one. But it's one of those things too now, like there's so many options for kids to it's just a safety issue though, too. Like there's so much involved with that when it comes to kids and protecting them.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

So we can talk about that.

SPEAKER_06 33:53

Yeah, that scares me. My advice is just uh if it the one to take if you don't ever listen to that episode, wait as long as you can to give your kids a phone. Like wait as long as you can.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

But what about this episode? What's your advice for this episode?

SPEAKER_06 34:08

Your wife's face should be able to open your phone. So if your phone has a lock on it, which I think pretty much every phone does now. Yeah, I think it can be a lot of it. Um I think it could yeah, it's already set up, shows you what I know. Um I mean she should be able to get to open your phone and look through it anytime she wants.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

And vice versa for me.

SPEAKER_06 34:28

Yeah, like I'm just saying that's she should be able to look. So um and be open and honest about those things. It's tough. I get it. There's a lot out there. Um and it's just but I don't I don't think that's something you should hold close to the chest so you're not gonna share.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

Yeah. So that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah. And this is why I'm grateful we get to do this. Like, I hope if you're listening to this and y'all have no not already had a conversation about phones and privacy and things like that, that this starts a conversation.

SPEAKER_06 35:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:03

Yeah, I agree. Man, all right. Interesting topic. Cellular devices.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

It's simple, but then it's not.

SPEAKER_06 35:11

Yeah. I mean, we're just we're not even digging into this. We're scraping.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

Explain what you mean by simple, but it's not. And I I say that because we we've had people who respond and things like that, and they're like, oh, y'all make it sound so easy.

Safe Space After Hard Reactions

SPEAKER_03 35:23

That's okay. Thank you. Um for me and Greg, this idea is simple when we're like your significant other's face should be able to open your phone and like there should be no um secrets that would cause strife or cause an argument or whatever. You would hope. Because you're being open and honest with each other with communication and what you're going through thinking about, or you know, whatever the case may be. But then on the other hand, when it's not simple, well, when you have something to hide and you're trying to bring transparency into your relationship, well, that makes it not simple.

SPEAKER_06 36:06

I think a lot of people don't do that because they're afraid the reaction to that transparency. Right. And that's where it comes into creating a safe space to be able to share those things. Because if I am if I'm over reading into things or I'm looking at things and there's a conversation uh between I and someone else, and you have a uh threat or you don't like that, you're gonna read into that. Yeah, and so it's like if there's not a safe space to be able to chat about that, it it can get it could it can get tough. And so that or you just be like, I'm just not gonna hide, I'm not gonna share that, and then you start hiding, and then one thing leads to another and you start hiding more and more and more.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

That's when it becomes narrow.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Well, and and another thing, there is uh someone we used to work with actually would always say this, you know, because reality is we're human. Yes. Okay, we have emotions, and sometimes when those emotions get the best of us, we can respond in the not best of ways. True, right? Okay so you may start a conversation and emotions can get rough and it can blow up. It can't happen. We don't want that to happen, but it can happen. It can right but also how you respond to that, get away, take time to cool off, take time to think through, but then be intentional to come back and talk it through.

SPEAKER_06 37:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Don't act like it never happened. True. Because the reality is you may be hiding something, and that might cause hurt and frustration with your spouse.

SPEAKER_05 37:39

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

They could have every right to get pissed. Okay, so un understand that doesn't mean just because you're gonna bring something up that there's not gonna be an emotion response to it, but also realize you have committed to be with each other. Yeah, work through it. So that being said, if it even if it does get hard, this is where we talk about it's simple, it's not always easy.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Those moments are going to come. Yes, but it's that long run, long-term grind of saying, hey, okay, well, if that just blew up and that was it, and we never talk about it again, that's not talking through it. That's not working. Yeah, you can bring it up and it can cause issues. Take some time.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Yeah, and you can say, I need a little bit to think about this, I gotta process it.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Maybe take a walk, whatever that looks like, but then still be able to come back and work through it, talk through it, define what that end goal is for you and your spouse, define what the heart is behind your reasonings in what you're going for. I think that is one thing that we miss a lot of time in relationships, and I say I've even done it myself, is things will blow up and then you just kind of let it be because you don't want it to blow up again. That's so true.

SPEAKER_06 38:54

Yeah, very true. But that's not communication. No, it's not. No, that's really not. But that happens a lot in relationships, especially in marriages. So all right. Well that wow, okay. Well, I have to feel like we just opened a box. Yeah, we just threw a grenade, and then we're just gonna walk away from it.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

Um then walk away like we did, and then this is a beginning conversation.

SPEAKER_06 39:22

So this is not the end, this is just a way to start the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

And I do really truly hope this is a conversation starter. And it it may not be pretty in the beginning for for your own self or your spouse slash significant other, whatever the case may be. But I do hope it's a conversation starter.

SPEAKER_06 39:40

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

I really do.

SPEAKER_06 39:42

Agree. Well, thank you guys for joining us. Uh thanks for checking us out again. If you enjoyed baggage claim, if you got something out of this, like, uh subscribe, um, share it with someone else. Uh, if you want to help support us, you can go to our Patreon account. Uh, there's two different levels there. You can join our Patreon, support us that way. We have content that we post there uh that we don't post anywhere else. We've done some of those and they're just really fun. We go off the rails a little bit, which is even more than we go off the rails.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

Last week our Patreon episode went longer than the actual episode.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

And I stayed up way too late for school night. Yeah, but it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_06 40:20

So if you're there, go join the Patreon and get some of that fun stuff too. Um, order stuff, go to our website, unpacktogether.com, buy some gear, some some stuff, some merch. Uh that kind of helps support us also. Helps us keep the lights on, the microphones on, and uh we keep posting. So thank you guys for joining. And we're uh we're still growing. I think we jumped, we're up to 27 countries now, 238 different cities. So keep sharing, keep growing. Uh we'll see if we can uh get everywhere uh at some point in time. But uh thank you for listening. Um hope you guys got something out of it. And as we always come back,