The Ghosts At The Table

A lot of relationship fights aren’t really about the dirty dishes, the unread text, or the vibe in the room. They’re about the ghosts that show up with us, old trauma, old trust breaks, old survival habits that still run in the background like an outdated operating system. Jess and Greg get honest about what those “ghosts” look like in real life, including how silence can trigger panic, how a phone can feel like betrayal, and why we sometimes react fast before we even know what we’re reacting to.

We dig into the operating system analogy: your coding is built from childhood, past relationships, and the messy moments that taught you how to protect yourself. The problem is that protection can turn into conflict when your current partner ends up paying a debt they don’t owe. We also talk about blended family pressure, how finances and co-parenting can keep old wounds close, and why healing after divorce can take longer than most people expect.

Along the way, we make space for a surprising truth: not every imprint from the past is bad. Some of it becomes gratitude, perspective, and a deeper appreciation for simply being together. If you want practical tools, we share a simple starting point that works at home and at work: slow down, do a self-audit, and lead with curiosity like “help me understand” instead of trying to fix or win.

Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review. What “ghost” are you ready to name so it stops running your relationship?

Transcript

Welcome And Warm-Up Banter

greg 0:00

Hey guys, what's up? I'm Greg. I hope you guys are ready to unpack and get into some good conversations today.

jess 0:07

And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast, Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us.

greg 0:17

What's up, Baggage Claim? How's everybody doing out there today? Um, if you're new here, thank you so much uh for taking the time to listen to us. Um Baggage Claim is a place where we're trying to create some community and some conversations around blended family, relationships, marriages.

jess 0:35

Friendships too.

greg 0:36

Yeah, friendships was our last one. All those fun things in between. So if you call Baggage Claim your home, which a lot of you do, and thank you so much for that. Grab your favorite drink, whatever that is, mine I have here today. Uh grab your drink, pull up to the table, and get ready for some fun conversations because um to today's gonna be a good. Yeah. I can't, for some reason, I can't say words.

jess 1:03

I don't I'm just gonna go ahead and be honest. Like, spring break for me as a teacher is around the corner, and I feel like my brain is already there.

Michael 1:12

I am there. I don't have a spring break next week, but I'm there with you.

miranda 1:16

We're in my brain is at the beach.

jess 1:18

Yes, it is.

greg 1:19

We're in North Georgia, and right now everything is yellow from pollen. It is ridiculous.

Michael 1:27

I washed my car trying to like get all the pollen away because it's so silly, goose. Gets me bad next day.

jess 1:33

Bad yellow. Yeah. Literally, yesterday I could not breathe at school. I was using my inhaler as much as I could. It was a bad day.

Michael 1:42

Yeah.

jess 1:42

But in the brain, it's summer almost. Spring breaks here for teachers, and we're like, mm-mm. We're checking out.

greg 1:50

It's basically summer for me.

jess 1:51

I mean, yeah.

greg 1:52

It's not for me. I'm not there yet. I'm there. Not there yet. But we are going to visit our kid um Pensacola next week, so that's gonna be fun. Um, so we're talking about tonight or today or whatever it may be. I don't know when you listen. It's tonight for us. It's usually always tonight for us. Should I just always say tonight? And if you listen it during the day, just at like it's today.

jess 2:13

Yeah.

greg 2:14

Pretend. It's fun to pretend.

jess 2:15

If you say today, though, it doesn't matter what time of the day.

greg 2:20

Okay, we should be having these conversations before we press record. Correct. Yes.

jess 2:24

That's just that's just how we can. You know what time it is, everybody? Questions Michael, that sounded rough.

Michael 2:34

Yeah, it was rough. My voice is like halfway to 60%. You know what I mean?

jess 2:39

Gotcha. Here's the question, everybody. Well, really, it's just you and me.

Michael 2:43

Well, they can answer. Oh. Well, it depends. I want to hear the question first before I decide if I want to hear.

jess 2:48

What is one quirk about me that you were skeptical of at first, but have come to love?

Michael 2:56

I was just skeptical at first.

jess 3:01

What is one quirk about me that you were skeptical of at first, but you have come to love? I have an answer.

greg 3:13

Okay, go ahead.

jess 3:15

Um, one quirk about you, and I know you can't help it because you're ADD brain, but like when you're talking and you stop in mid-sentence and don't finish your sentence because your brain's already on the next sentence.

greg 3:29

I know. It's actually incredibly embarrassing.

jess 3:34

What is happening? Like, I don't understand. But now I'm just like, okay, and I'll either I'll finish your sentence for you or I'll make you go back and say, you know, like you just said blah blah blah, and then stop. So what where were you going with that?

greg 3:53

Well, because sometimes when you're speaking, I have a thought and mom and I sometimes if I interrupt and it's hateful and I get it. But you'll I'll say, I'm gonna wait. And then when you get to the end, you go, What were you gonna say? And I was like I have no idea.

jess 4:07

But you will literally be, you can say, Well, I was talking to mom and uh she um and then nothing, and then like it'll be like a good three solid seconds of silence where I'm just like, okay, is he gathering his thoughts or what's going on? And then the next sentence is like something so not to do with that at all. And I'm like, okay, it has to be annoying. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's not annoying. I mean, it's not annoying, but sometimes I'm like, do do I need to know what the rest of that is?

Michael 4:45

Well, it's like you threw a nice little teaser out there, and you're like, well, now you gotta know what he's talking about. Okay, VM is just giving you the hook. Just the hook that three second silence, like, watch this.

jess 4:57

Like they calculated. He's like, gotcha. Yeah, and I don't know. And I always tell my firstties, I'm like, it's okay, it'll circle back, but it won't circle back. Sometimes it never circles back.

Michael 5:08

D o you ever get where you actually interrupt yourself? Because your mind's going in like so many different directions. I do that all the time. Yeah, constantly.

greg 5:15

I do that. I interrupted myself. I was talking to myself the other night, sitting on the couch, and I was like, I'm just, dude, I'm I think I've losed it. I think I'm at that point. Like I am losing it.

Michael 5:26

I think everyone talks to themselves at some point.

jess 5:28

I talk to myself in my head, but not out loud.

miranda 5:30

I can't hear my voice in my head.

jess 5:34

Yeah, I can see. I mean, that I feel like that's probably more common than you think it is.

greg 5:37

I don't know if it's a quirk. It's just, it's just, it was just very odd to me. You um, when I met you, I thought you were the most dehydrated person I've ever met in my entire life.

jess 5:47

Just how much water I drink.

greg 5:49

Yeah, and you always it doesn't matter where we're at. We go into church, she's got a water bottle. We're going shopping's water bottle, we're going hiking water bottle. Like it's and it's a fill to the rim every time we leave the house. You fill that thing up.

jess 6:01

But how often do I refill it because I drink it?

greg 6:04

Like a lot. Yeah. It's like, why how do you drink that much water?

miranda 6:08

I don't know.

greg 6:09

It's just crazy. That I thought I always thought it was I don't know if it's quirky because I mean, yeah, you're hydrating. Like everybody would be like, Yeah, you idiot. At least drinking water. Yeah, you should.

miranda 6:19

I'm horrible at that.

jess 6:20

You are not great at drinking water.

miranda 6:22

Nope.

jess 6:22

I don't I I don't know if it's a quirk for you, but when Miranda, when you started coming around and we figured out you got your thousand yard stare that you do, it took a little to figure out like, is she okay?

greg 6:37

It's like a glitch in the matrix.

miranda 6:39

It is. It's a glitch.

greg 6:40

For her, she's just like shaking her head a little bit like it's like she's sort of completely still.

Michael 6:46

I don't know if I've seen this thousand yards.

jess 6:48

Oh man. She's completely still and focusing on nothing and everything at the same time. And then all of a sudden, usually she'll blink and kind of shake her head, like bringing herself back to the world. And you know who else does it? Lucy Grace.

Michael 7:04

That makes a lot of sense.

jess 7:05

The 19-month-old baby. She does the same thing, and it is wild.

greg 7:10

Our kids are just a product of us.

Michael 7:13

So I mean it is what it is. Well, I've got one, but it's kind of a quirk about me because I'm curious now that you say that, like things that we just do, we don't realize we do. When you're like focused on something, do you ever forget to breathe sometimes?

miranda 7:27

Yes.

jess 7:29

No.

Michael 7:31

No, what? So like if I'm like working on pedals or electronics or building a board or something like that, like I'll find myself being focused and I don't realize it, but then all of a sudden I'll just go. Because like my body is like, okay, breathe. Like actually breathe.

greg 7:49

I know, right? Yeah. So you get so focused on the task you forget to breathe. It happens. I mean, it's not like all the time, but like every once in a while. That is very interesting.

jess 7:58

I do it when I work out. I do hold my breath too when I work out.

greg 8:03

That's kind of normal.

jess 8:05

Yeah.

greg 8:05

I don't know. But you're normal.

miranda 8:08

But specifically running.

Michael 8:11

Well, that's not true. You hold your breath when you run.

miranda 8:13

On accident.

Michael 8:14

There's no way I run and I'm like, oh trying to breathe. Yeah.

greg 8:20

It's like breathing through a straw.

miranda 8:22

Like every time I take a step, I have to remind myself like, hey, breathe.

greg 8:27

Well, it gives you something to do.

jess 8:30

Or just don't run like me.

greg 8:32

That's true. Just don't running at literally. No only time I run, somebody's chasing me.

jess 8:37

Yeah, unless there's something really wrong.

miranda 8:39

Hey, will you all support me at the Run Disney? Baggage Glam sponsor?

jess 8:46

For what did you say?

miranda 8:47

Run Disney. I want to do the marathon.

greg 8:52

So many better races you could so many better marathons. I want to meet on an Elsa. Yeah, and then you can go run play with Lucy.

miranda 9:06

Oh, yeah.

greg 9:07

That sounds amazing. Well, let's get busy because we're just rambling right now. We're just all over the place. So um I want to talk about to to today. Golly.

jess 9:21

Today. Today, Junior.

greg 9:24

Hold on. I'm gonna take a drink here. That could be my problem. Sorry. Is that loud?

miranda 9:31

You made a funny sound.

Defining Relationship Ghosts

greg 9:33

Anyway, we need to do we're probably gonna edit this thing out. Nah, we good. So anyway, we're talking about ghosts today. Something that we all have. They're all in our lives. Uh whether you know them or not, they're there. Um and so we're gonna dig into that a little bit. And I'm not not in a weird way. Don't don't cut us off or change it. I'm not talking about like the spooky ghost in the corner. Um, which I do think is a fascinating subject.

jess 10:01

But that's a not that's neither here nor there.

greg 10:03

That it has nothing to do with relationships or marriage unless you're trying to marry a ghost, and then that's just weird. Okay. Um so but we're talking about the ghosts being the relationships from our past.

Michael 10:15

Yes.

greg 10:16

Um those things that are in in our lives, sometimes memories, trauma, conflict, all those things that are there affect the way we act, affect the way that we communicate, uh, just affect the way that we do life.

jess 10:30

There may be a ghost at the dinner table and you don't know it.

Your Operating System And Coding

greg 10:33

Boom. Could be. Mic drop. So there's this thing. We at Baggage Claim we try to uh we try to categorize things and we have these three uh different categories that we talk about things that's you, us, being the couple, and then the family. Uh tonight we're gonna focus on this this you part of being slash us. Yeah, you being the person like you have ghosts, you have things in your past that are affecting the way that you communicate with the significant other in your life right now. So we like to refer to kind of your hardware and your coding as your operating system. Yeah, it's your operating system. So you're coded, like there's codes in you of how you react during conflict, how you react during nine times out of ten, your operating system is what you've been exposed to, and it's not intentional. No, it was usually developed in you at a young, young age. Yeah. Um, and so therefore, it's you're just a product of it. Um, we tell so many times how you handle conflict, how you handle um fighting, arguing, stress, all those different fun situations, celebrations. You handle all those are coded into you, and that's your operating system. Now, if you're like me, my operating system in my phone right now has been trying to update for the last two weeks, and I just won't do it.

jess 11:51

I won't either.

greg 11:52

Um, I don't know why. I just won't. And one time you try to update it, and it said there's not enough storage. So you gotta go and delete some stuff and get rid of some things before you can actually update your you know, your software system, your operating system. You've got to go back up to them photos so you can get Facebook.

jess 12:08

Photos, man. Photos kill you. I have thousands and thousands of photos on my phone. Yeah.

greg 12:14

So I want you just one, to stay focused with me here off of I'm spraying breakfast. And two, to think about your the way you think, the way you act is your operating system. It's coded into you. So that's when we talk in those terms, that's kind of what we mean. Um, even throughout, like, hey, figure out what your operating system is, how that looks, how that works. Well, what do you need to update? What do you not need to? What are some things you need to get rid of?

jess 12:43

What are some things you can some pieces of your operating system, like we just talked about, is what you were exposed to when you were young and growing up, but also things that you've been through as an adult can change and alter your operating system, even if you don't realize that it did.

Michael 12:58

Yeah. Can I throw something in there real quick? Because I love this analogy, which normally I get to we talk about this stuff before, but we've been talking about a bunch of stuff. I did not know what we were talking about for this episode until you mentioned it. There were life-changing moments in my life when this concept clicked in my mind. So when we talk about coding, it's a product of what you've been through, what you've been exposed to. Um, I was actually talking today before I came here, um, the last meeting I had with another worship leader. Um, and we were just talking about music and how people go about it so differently. And some people do it in ways that can be frustrating, you know. And I mean, it's the same thing with work, your job. Like the way you do one task, someone else could do differently, and it can be annoying and frustrating sometimes because you're like, oh, one, well, that's not how I would do it. Or two, it's like, why are you doing it that way? Because it's so much harder to do it that way than to do it this way, which is a lot more efficient. And and uh so it brings to mind, like we talk through it, and we're like, okay, well, how do you work through that? How do you function that? How do you deal with your own stresses and and frustrations at that with someone you're working with? And uh it was funny because our walk away, our our thing was they just they may not just know any better. Yeah, yeah. Maybe the only way they know that the and simply because, and we both talked about it, because this is something we learned from someone else together collectively as we were working together, and it was like we experienced it, so we know better. Yeah.

jess 14:22

So true.

Michael 14:23

But we can't take our frustration out on people who don't know any better. We can only help try to help them see it that way too. Because it changes complete perspective on how you interact with someone who thinks differently than you. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. To tie that because that's a brilliant concept.

greg 14:41

Well, because the the idea is is that you you're gonna be different from the person you marry, the people you work with, because they didn't grow up in the same household with you. Even the I mean, you look at our four kids growing up in the household that they did. Uh, some of them came along, we we blended them a little later. Yeah. Um, but they are very different. And they all grew up with the same rules, kind of the same stuff. Um, they're just they're different.

jess 15:08

And so I mean, you couldn't put four kids together that are more different than our four kids. But even the ones that are actually siblings are night and day different. There's not any of them that are alike.

Michael 15:22

Right.

jess 15:23

There's pieces and parts that are similar and they have some kind of like bonding things, but as far as like personalities and experiences, no.

greg 15:33

And so we come into every relationship, whether you're single and you're about to go into a relationship or you're dating or you're about to get married, you have these things, your operating system, your coding is already developed into you from past relationships, from your childhood, all those things. If you're in your second marriage, you're coming with all of those things and then with a bunch of other things. Yeah. Because you were with a relationship in a relationship that didn't work out. It was either traumatic. Or yeah, it was either through conflict, trauma, somehow, somehow, that relationship ended, and therefore you have those that coding follows you into yours if you allow it to.

jess 16:21

Yeah. And well, I mean, that's the whole idea of baggage claim. Because you you have your baggage that you brought with you. Yes. But all of that baggage, like you were just saying, is part of kind of how you're wired.

greg 16:31

Yes.

jess 16:32

And you can't help it.

greg 16:33

No. You just then that's where I'm always interested in, you know, we've talked about those dumb things I do where I brush my teeth with a different hand, or I, you know, try to do things to try to trick my brain or my mind to think differently or to act different, just trying to engage different parts of your brain.

jess 16:50

Which is hilarious because that's your operating system. And I'm like, nope, I'm gonna keep doing things like I know how to do them. I'm not gonna change it. I don't want to change it. I don't want you to tell me to change it, and I'm just gonna keep doing it the way I know how.

greg 17:02

I just want to try new things. Like we had the conversation of putting socks and shoes on and how you do that. And so one day I put a sock on one foot and then put the shoe on and the other foot had nothing. And I just sit there for a minute and I was like, this feels weird. Yeah, and uh, but I did it because I haven't done it. And now it's just like thinking about all the little things we do that are just kind of wired into us, yeah, and we just have reactions to when somebody doesn't do things the way we want to. It may be they don't load the dishwasher the same way, they don't clean the kitchen the same way. Like you didn't wipe the sink out, like if you empty the sink, why don't you wipe the sink out? Everybody wipes the sink out, but not everybody does.

jess 17:42

And why didn't you clean the counter? Yeah, everybody sprays the counters down.

greg 17:47

Everybody does, but everybody doesn't, and so it's like you should. So we have those things that we bring into our relationships, and that's why so many times the second marriages just don't last because you have a ghost from your ex that sometimes is sitting at the table with you and you don't even know it.

Michael 18:08

Boom.

Triggers That Create Unpaid Debts

greg 18:09

That's good, and it could be so good. The whole idea is that you you were hurt for like we had this conversation the other day, like yours wasn't yours was from trauma. It wasn't hurt. And um if you if I go radio silent on you for any reason, oh man, you it doesn't take long before you go off the deep end.

jess 18:30

Uh within like a couple of minutes. If I don't hear from you, it brings up that past trauma. That's the ghost for me of something.

greg 18:39

That ghost is silence, it's silent.

jess 18:41

Yeah, it's something's wrong because that's what happened, and I just immediately go there. That is the ghost that follows me. It's like if yeah, it's the silent, the ghost is silence.

greg 18:52

Yeah.

jess 18:53

And that that's mine.

greg 18:54

Yeah. So figuring out what that is, because we we actually said this phrase sometimes the the person you're with feels like they're paying a debt for something they didn't even do. They didn't even do. It's the past person before you brought that trauma and that conflict with you into the relationship. You didn't deal with it. And now when something happens, say I go quiet, you think, oh my gosh, you think the worst. And I'm like, why would you?

jess 19:22

Well, I mean, it just happened last week. I was texting you about something, and I mean Miranda's saying, yeah, because I flipped out and asked her if she had talked to you in the last some odd minutes or whatever. Um and because I was like I said, trying to get a hold of you and you didn't answer me forever. It literally felt like it was days. And I mean, mind you, probably in real life, I mean, really in real life, it was probably about 45 minutes. And that for me is like 45 days. Um, because I just go back to that like panic. And um and finally you responded, you were like, What? I'm trimming a path to the creek, like I'm in I'm I'm I'm at the house.

greg 20:05

Like I'm like I'm I'm working on the place where we're gonna hang out at the creek.

jess 20:09

Yeah, making them so it's like I was like, you didn't respond to me, and I thought everything was wrong, and I told Brandon to go find you, and like I just was like panicking. That's my ghost.

greg 20:20

And so mine when we were talking about it, the things that that that I had is at first when we were together, you you would be on your phone, and you know, if you're just on your phone texting or doing whatever, I was always paranoid because I'm like, who's she talking to? Why is she on her phone? Why is she doing that? Because in the past relationship, that meant betrayal for me. And so it was I associated those two things, and you weren't doing anything wrong on your phone, but I took that from my past and I put that on you, and I was like But also I didn't even know till we were talking about this that that was something that you struggle with. Well, I d I don't know if I struggle with it. But it was something for me that because there was a level of trust that we had to build up to that, to where I was like, Yeah, I trust you.

jess 21:13

You never let on to me though. I I was out loud about my ghost. I'm like, dude, if you don't respond to me really fast, I'm gonna immediately go to something's really wrong.

greg 21:23

But sometimes we have those things, you have those ghosts at the table in your relationships. Probably you were hurt in a past relationship somehow, some way. Um and it just keeps creeping up in the way that some the the significant other does something that triggers that.

jess 21:39

But again, for both of us on both these things that are what our ghosts are, neither one of us like those are debts that we shouldn't have to pay.

Michael 21:48

Right.

jess 21:48

Like I've never done anything to would have broken your trust. You've never done anything to make me feel like well, if you don't respond, something's wrong. Like that those are not.

greg 22:00

Right.

Reading People And Owning Reactions

jess 22:00

But those are definitely ghosts that followed us here.

greg 22:04

And that's our operating system.

jess 22:06

It is.

greg 22:06

And as crazy as it is, if you think about it, like the way you uh if you're at work, you're listening to this at work, or if you're on your way to work or back from work, how you respond to people at work, how you respond to your bosses, how your boss when your boss responds to you, if he responds in a certain way or she responds in a certain way, you're bringing trauma from a past boss kind of employer relationship, and you put all of that on that relationship without ever having a conversation or ever having anything around it. Most of the time, not always, but most of the time we don't have the conversation to go, hey, what is that real what do you really mean by that? Like, what does that really mean? Um, because for me, I have I I think I have a very, very good emotional radar. Like I can read people fairly well. Um You can. I I used to in consulting when we did that for years, you'd have to go into the room and you had to read people really, really quick.

miranda 23:02

Yeah.

greg 23:02

Um and so that I and I enjoyed it. Um, but I also too can do that in the room. Like when we're around and something's up with you, it's easy for me to tell when something's up with you.

Michael 23:12

Yeah.

greg 23:12

And for me, my radar goes off because I think if I don't address this small little thing, the small thing's gonna become a big thing and then it's gonna burn down in my hands and I'm not gonna have anything left. Um true. That's where my brain goes. So immediately when I see, when I feel like the mood's off, because when we first got together, a lot of times I'll be like, hey, are you okay? You okay? You okay?

jess 23:33

Because I didn't say that more often than I thought was necessary.

greg 23:36

Because I didn't know you, I didn't know how you act, I didn't know how you reacted to different things. And so I was constantly checking to make sure you're okay.

jess 23:45

And so it was that but what's interesting though is like these ghosts that we bring in that affect our operating system, the responses that we have, like if something kind of triggers that, um, like the negative, like the trauma or whatever. Um we're not necessarily responding to each other in that moment, we're responding to that memory.

greg 24:07

Yes.

jess 24:08

Yeah, which is where that trauma stems from.

greg 24:10

Which is not fair. No, it's not fair to the person in the room. So what you have to do is kind of slow down, stop, and be like, what am I what am I responding to? Is this past trauma? Is this hurt, past hurt, or is this a recent?

jess 24:24

This is literally him or her and with me.

Michael 24:27

What for y'all helps bring that awareness? Because uh we tend to live in this um, I don't know what you want to call it, maybe like main character complex. Yeah, right. So we think, and I mean, just it's our most natural state, I would say.

jess 24:44

Like everything revolves around us. Yeah, yeah.

Michael 24:48

Because in your mind, you're constantly thinking about everything you're going through, everything you're doing. Even when you got family, when you got a spouse, you're still very much so yeah, self-centered, but not even in like the deep-rooted, selfish way. We just are concerned about ourselves because we have to take care of ourselves.

jess 25:05

That's how this makes me feel.

Michael 25:07

And so, like when I look at this concept, we're talking of uh operating systems, it's very easy for us to relate to being frustrated at other people's operating system. Yeah, right. And even when we get over that first hurdle of saying, okay, well, that's just what they know. They don't know any better. We can have some grace, we can have some mercy to that. That's a first grace step.

miranda 25:29

Yeah.

Michael 25:30

But that next step is a step that I feel is so much harder to overcome is realizing maybe I'm the one that just doesn't know any better.

jess 25:41

Oh, I'm I'm 100% the one with my trauma/slash ghost.

greg 25:47

But that's normally not our first go-to thought. The problem, I think the biggest problem for most people in relationships is they can't be honest with themselves.

Michael 25:57

Yeah.

greg 25:58

I mean, they you just you can't be honest with and be like, yeah, that was all me. I jacked that up. Yeah. Yeah, I did that. It's hard for us to do that, man. I don't I don't know why we just we immediately always want to go, no, no. I don't I did overreact, but I overreact it because they did this. Yeah. Or I did that because they find their own actions. Yeah, 100%. And it's like, no, you just overreacted. Like they were they weren't that's how do you even know that's what they meant?

jess 26:25

Right. Um well, I mean, if we could you know personally, um when when I react and flip out because you don't respond, I have to first of all go back to what I've learned about trust and what God has for me and what I had to learn through my experience. But then I also have to trust you. You are very independent. You adventure and you do your own thing a lot. And so I have to just be like a lot. And you don't always have your phone on you, which is great. I mean, it is it is great. Um, but I have to remind myself to not panic. And that's really hard for me. But like, what about for you? Like how you may not even remember, but like, how long did it take you to figure out like just because I'm on my phone doesn't mean I'm you know, I have an alternate life that I you don't know that I have.

greg 27:26

I think it it it it wasn't a for me, it wasn't about the phone, which is weird enough. It was just about um I think when you come out of um the relationship I came out of, you have some trust issues. Yeah, um, undoubtedly. And I think mine was just a trust thing. It wasn't you had done nothing to break trust, you had done nothing to to harm that. It was just for me, I was very, very like I just didn't I didn't trust anybody. Like I didn't trust anyone.

jess 28:02

I also had not done anything to earn your trust yet at that point, too, though.

greg 28:06

And I think once we got to the point, someone asked me, they're like, Man, what happens, you know, what happens if the same thing happens again? And I was like, I I guess I mean I was like, I can't live there. Like I can't live in that headspace. If I'm living in that headspace, I shouldn't be marrying anybody.

jess 28:22

But I mean, same for me.

greg 28:24

Right.

jess 28:24

Like, what if the same thing happens again?

greg 28:27

Yeah.

jess 28:28

And so for me.

greg 28:29

I just have to I just have to think that there's a there's a plan there.

jess 28:32

Yeah.

greg 28:33

Um I think something also, too, we don't talk about, and this is why it's so hard in blended families, because you're not most of the time it's just not you with that spouse that's coming. There's so many other things that come in with that ghost ghost. There's financial restrictions if you're paying alimony, if you're paying child support, or if you're paying this, that, and the other, you're fighting over I bought clothes and those clothes didn't come back. Yeah. I'm spending my there's just so many layers to that.

jess 29:00

And if that's when you're fighting against a debt that you didn't you didn't bring in.

greg 29:05

Right. And I think that's where the frustration comes so many times. And it's easier to just go, I don't want to do this anymore. Like I don't need to do this, and I'm not going to. Because you you also too have parents, and I I I worked really hard, and and luckily I was just so broke I couldn't do much with this. Um, parents overcompensate sometimes to try to fix, like they feel like they broke something or something that happened, so they overcompensate for the kids and they do so much more than they should, and they're buying them and they're going and doing things, and it's just so over the top. And I'm like, it's it's just very unhealthy. But as adults, we're like, I just want to be there for my kids, I want to protect my kids. My whole life is about my kids. And it's like, I hear what you're saying, but that's that's not healthy. Your whole life should be about you being if you want to be good for your kids, be the healthiest version of you. Deal with your pain, deal with your anger, deal with your frustration, work through that, unpack those bags and show them what real grace, real love, those things look like, live down in front of them. Don't go buy them everything they want just because the marriage fell apart. That doesn't, it doesn't help anything. Um, but we I see it all the time. Like all the time.

jess 30:19

Well, there's some research that we ran across and we're reading about that um after like post-divorce or post trauma, like an end to a relationship, um, it can take your nervous system up to seven years to recover and recuperate from that trauma.

Michael 30:38

That's crazy.

jess 30:39

Seven years, seven years.

Michael 30:42

Yeah, it makes sense.

jess 30:43

Seven years. That makes sense. Yeah, to not be triggered by something or yeah, you're being triggered by things, your comparison game, you're trying to outdo the the ex or trying to live live out, you know, fears of of new trauma, like in my experience, that that's a lot, there's a lot that happens in seven years. Yeah.

greg 31:06

Because you don't you a lot of times you don't go into that relationship and you're not giving 110% to you're not giving all of yourself to that relationship because part of you it's like, no, this uh I'm I'm gonna protect this part because what if it happens again?

jess 31:19

Well, and too, another thing that I was reading about earlier, there's that defensive shield that you can put up around yourself, just trying to protect yourself from any kind of trauma happening again. You're not gonna give 100% of your heart when you have that kind of shield up. Bro, meaning about that.

Michael 31:35

Well, and also how many times do we have that shield up and we don't even realize it? Yeah, I mean, I go back to conversations you and I've had, and I mean, I'm what three years outside of my divorce. Yeah. And we were sitting here talking, what, six months ago, and I'm just got a lot going on in life trying to figure it out, and we just sit here talking, we're just going like thing after thing that's going on in my life, and then all of a sudden, like it broke the wall down. I was like, I'm still holding on to stuff, yeah, that I had I'd never even thought about. Like, I thought I was past this. Right. How many times do we have those operating systems that are still functioning and we don't even realize it?

greg 32:14

Yeah, because it's it's hard. I I get it, and I say that it's really, really hard to be honest or to have someone in your life that can be brutally honest with you and be like, bro, that's on we we just talked about friendships um on our last episode with Ashley and Michael. Um, but dude, having a friend, having someone in your life that can call you on the hard things and just be honest with you. Like someone be like Miranda and I were riding in the truck the other day, and Miranda was struggling, and apparently I I should have handled it a little nicer, I guess. Um because she was so and I was I was I wanted to get her, I wanted her to get the point. Yeah, and but what hey plug plug your mic in. I think it just popped out. Yeah, there you go. It's back.

jess 33:03

And so What did you say, Miranda, to him?

miranda 33:07

What?

greg 33:08

Basically, I told her. I was like, she's like, because Miranda's a people pleaser. And so I told her, I was like, Miranda, can I just be honest with you? And she goes, sure. I was like, nobody outside of this truck, maybe that maybe there's a handful of people that give a shit about you. Like what you do, what you say, what you wear, what you do with your life. There's maybe five to six other people in the world right now that care about that. And she just got quiet. The trunk.

jess 33:38

You would be a good therapist, but like a really blunt one.

miranda 33:44

I meant it in the best way possible.

greg 33:46

Yeah, okay.

Michael 33:47

And I and I heard it the same way that he meant it in the beginning.

greg 33:50

Yeah, yeah, right. And so I was talking to Miranda like I would talk to one of my guy friends. Like, that's how I would talk about it. We've had that conversation. Yes. We have. And so it was like, that's because in our world, we go back to that idea in our operating system that our world revolves around us. Yeah. That we think everybody who we run into is like, oh my gosh, did you see what she had on? Oh my gosh, did you see what they what did you see what they did? And I'm like, Most times.

jess 34:18

There was other people there. Yeah.

Good Ghosts And Gratitude Imprints

greg 34:19

So it's it's it's so many times we just don't think about it.

jess 34:23

Well, we've talked a lot about um kind of like the negative aspect of like the ghost of the ghost of Christmas past, or you know, whatever you want to call it, but not all ghost footprints or ghosts like remnants are bad.

greg 34:40

Like the show ghost, wasn't she in love with her ghost or something in the show? That's weird. That's a weird, yeah. That's a weird old, old show. But anyway.

jess 34:48

That was weird, but not all um ghost imprints. I don't know what, but they're not all bad.

greg 34:57

The coding you received, like the the code or the operating system that updated or changed when you were in your past relationship, it's not always bad. Like I was just telling Jess, so like your appreciation for just being together is from a past relationship.

jess 35:12

Yeah.

greg 35:12

It's because of the trauma that happened with you and TJ. So you're just like, I'm just glad we're here.

jess 35:17

Yeah, I'm just really glad you came home today. Yeah, and so um and and you know, there's simple things that you're thankful for for me for the same reasons. It's just like it it's not all past relationships, don't only leave a negative imprint on you.

greg 35:35

Correct. Yeah, there's good things.

jess 35:37

It's important to acknowledge that.

greg 35:38

Yeah, and it's okay to acknowledge that. Uh it's okay to acknowledge the good things. The problem with the bad things is we just let them become toxic.

Michael 35:46

Yeah.

greg 35:46

We don't deal with them, they just wind up ruining even the good things.

Michael 35:49

True.

greg 35:50

Um, so I guess that's why we sometimes focus on the bad. But list out some of those things. Did we have a sentence? Was there something? I don't have my laptop. Um man, I have I wrote down a question I wanted to do for Unpack. It was finishing the question. I can't remember what it was at the time.

jess 36:09

Um, we didn't, I I didn't write down my handy dandy notebook.

Self-Audit With Curiosity Not Fixing

greg 36:14

If you're not watching us, um, yeah, just just as notes again. We're going back to notes. Yep, we're going back to notes. So um as as we unpack, here's here's my this is a simple, simple unpack. Um I I'm gonna I'm gonna beat this drum all the time. Uh know your operating system. Yeah, yeah. Know who you are, know how you operate, know how you deal. Uh, what is it that triggers you in your relationship now?

jess 36:40

And then be okay with that. Yes. Be okay. Once you figure it out, it's not gonna be comfy every time. It's truly not, but you gotta be okay with that because once you learn it and know it and be okay with it, that's where you can start growing from it.

greg 36:54

But you have to be able to. I know so many people don't want to have this conversation with their significant other because they're like, this is gonna blow up and become a war. Uh, and I don't want to do that. This is an easy enter into this conversation with curiosity and looking for understanding.

Michael 37:12

It's more of a learning, not a fixing.

greg 37:14

Right. You're not here to fix anything. You're not gonna fix the way they are, you're not gonna change who they are. You just want to understand how they how that how they think, how they figure, like, how did you get there? And it may just be the interesting question to be like, what did you mean by that?

miranda 37:28

Help me understand.

Michael 37:29

Boom.

greg 37:31

So it's just a it's a just a simple question with curiosity to be honest.

Michael 37:37

Like piques my mind so much in that, like, so I've I'm relatively new at a job, right? I've been here 18 months, so that's not new, but like you're still getting to know the culture, right? How many times when you start a new job, you ask a lot of questions, right? You're trying to figure out how, not to be cliche, the system works. Right. You're trying to figure out how the culture works. Yep, right? You get a new car. What's the problem with well for me? The first thing I do is I figure out how the sound system works. Like, okay, what kind of amp we got in here? What kind of EQ do we have? Like, what can I do so I can make this sound good, right? I get a new amp. The first thing I do is I sit down, I explore all options to see what it can sound like, what kind of sounds I can make it sound like. Why don't we ever do the same for our own operating system? I don't know.

jess 38:24

It's scary.

Michael 38:25

Kind of like do a self-audit. And some people do it really well, some people do it really well naturally.

jess 38:29

But it's scary.

Michael 38:30

But like I look at my life, I'm 33 years old. I didn't start doing this till I was like 27, 28. No one ever taught me that.

jess 38:38

And people don't want to people don't want to discover something that may be bad or yucky.

greg 38:44

Well, the world, the world may see it as a as a bad thing.

jess 38:46

Yeah, and then own it and be able to to explain it, which is not a bad thing either, though.

greg 38:55

I mean Yeah. I agree. So anything else to add to that? I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot to that.

Michael 39:03

Learn your operating system. Yeah. And realize your operating system is not stuck in stone.

miranda 39:09

No.

greg 39:09

No, it's not. You can update it. And you should. You absolutely should update it. If you're not updating your operating system of how you think, how you operate, yeah. You you definitely need to do a self-audit with someone you trust and love who can be honest with you. Yeah. Um, and just say, man, there's some things I see that probably need to change. So those aren't easy conversations, but they're they're worthwhile conversations. When you do this though, I'm telling you, it will change the way you look at relationships, not just with your spouse, but at work. Everywhere, everywhere you go, you're gonna look at those relationships.

Michael 39:45

And I will add to this and agree and completely do this consistently. Yes. Because if you do this once and you're like, oh, that's too much work, I don't want to do it, and you stop, that that doesn't change anything. Or if you do this once every two years, that doesn't change anything.

Start The Talk And Closing

greg 39:59

Well, we've I I've been working on a coaching program. I've been enthralled into our baggage claim. Jess tells me I need to chill out because but I'm very much into this the our creating a training coaching module for you guys to use. And and I keep going back to so many people go, Well, I did that once and it didn't, you know, did everything even go away. And I'm like, dude, it's like going to the gym. You don't you didn't get out of shape overnight. It took you a while to get there. It's gonna take you a while to get back. Like, and embrace the process. It's a mindset, not a one-time event. Yeah. Like you're knowing your operating system and self-auditing and figuring that out and changing, that's a mindset that you constantly go through. It's not a one-time event that you do. It's not something you just do, and like, okay, I'm done with that. Let's do something else. It just doesn't work that way. So, anyway, that being said, that's a there's a that's a lot, and that's a deep, deep conversation. So I encourage you, man, if you got some of that favorite drink left over, sit down with your spouse and just start this conversation. Uh, this may be a great place to start by listening to this. Hopefully, if you're listening to this, tell your spouse, hey, listen to this episode and then let's talk about it because I'm really curious what you think and I want to hear your input. Um, and just have those conversations. So, anything else to add before we go?

jess 41:22

I don't think so. Sweet.

greg 41:23

Thanks for joining us. Make sure to like, subscribe, uh, all those good things wherever you're out, share us. Uh, we're trying to grow our audience uh and get out there and get some things going. So uh thank you for listening and uh thanks for being a part.

Michael 41:36

Go dogs. Go dogs.