Dinner Rolls and Marriage Roles - Defining who we are in marriage

The smallest moments can reveal the biggest patterns. One of us walks into a room and talks to everyone, the other hangs back and watches, and suddenly you can see the same dynamic playing out at home: who leads, who follows, who carries the social load, and who quietly keeps the whole thing steady. We start with a question about your most visible talent and end up somewhere deeper, because what people praise in public can create real tension in a marriage if you never name the pros and cons out loud.

Then we get practical about marriage roles and expectations. Provider and caregiver are the classic labels, but real life is more layered: discipline, schedules, emotional support, decision making, money pressure, and the constant question of “what do you expect me to handle?” We also talk identity in marriage, including why so many men tie self worth to their job and why so many women tie self worth to their kids and their home. When stress hits, that identity drift can pull couples apart unless they learn to ask for help, set boundaries, and stay connected on purpose.

We also unpack the rise of gray hair divorces, when couples make it to the empty nest and realize they no longer know each other. Our takeaway is simple and hard: choose intentional connection now, build margin into your family schedule, and keep having the conversations that make you more than roommates. If this hits home, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more couples can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Warm Up

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey guys, what's up? I'm Greg. I hope you guys are ready to unpack and get into some good conversations today.

SPEAKER_05 0:07

And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast, Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

What's up, Baggage Claim? How's everybody doing out there today? Thank you so much for joining us. If this is your first time with us, welcome. Grab your favorite drink, whatever it is, if it's coffee, if you're driving, if you're not, and you're in the comfort of wherever, grab your favorite drink, take a deep breath, and pull up to the table with us because we're going to jump into some fun conversations about marriage. We're going to create some community, all those fun things in between. If you call Badge Claim Your Home, you know the deal. Grab your drink. Let's get it on.

SPEAKER_06 0:51

I feel like I need to take a deep breath.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Honestly, after you did that deep breath, you just made both Miranda and I yawn very much.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

I know, you're both yawned. I was like, am I that boring?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yawn. Yawns are very much so uh contagious.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

So this is a little different because I just want to start with saying it is it is a beautiful time in Georgia right now. That's right. If you live in Georgia. But the rain has helped a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:18

A little. We need like two solid days of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

What week is this? People, what is the week?

SPEAKER_06 1:24

It is Master's Week.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

It is Master's Week, and that is the one of the best weeks of the year.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh, he's saying it's the best week because it's Masters. We're saying it's the best week because the weather is good. The weather's good.

SPEAKER_06 1:35

I was thinking it's the best week because I'm on spring break. It is. Jess is on spring break.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

We all have our own reasons. Jess is on spring. Wow, what a lesson on perspective. Right. We're going to the beach for a few days to see what we're doing.

SPEAKER_06 1:46

If you're watching on YouTube, I have like I have no makeup on. I did have not washed my hair today, and my hat's pulled down really low.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

And we usually record on at night, like Tuesday nights. This is the middle of a Monday, and we're just getting it on. I got my golf attire on for the Masters. You do. Even your golf, hey dudes. I even got my heydo golf. My hey do golf here. You can't see it. Have you seen this?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

His feet are now on the table.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

My feet are trying to show you. So if you're on YouTube, if you're not a subscriber on YouTube, go subscribe. You can see these beautiful feet.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

They were a good surprise last year.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

His shoes, not his feet. Okay, yes, right. Just to clarify.

SPEAKER_06 2:21

Oh no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_06 2:23

I did, I got a lot of points for that surprise last year.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

You did.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

They are pretty sick shoes. I've already told you that today.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

We will be coming home early from the beach to do the final round of the Masters party at the house. So if you're around North Georgia, around Gainesville, and you'll come hang out and watch the final round of Masters with us.

SPEAKER_06 2:39

Hey, Texas, DM.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

DM us and I'll send you my address. You can come hang out with us. And watch the Masters, the final rounds.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

I feel like because we're out of everything's out of the ordinary right now, I feel like I can't really get in the groove.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah, it's gonna Jess has been struggling so far in here today, so she may go off the rails and start talking about some crazy crap.

SPEAKER_06 2:58

Or I may just be silent and it will be the Greg and Michael show. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Okay. And Miranda show.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

And Miranda showed up.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Why is it said Miranda? Why is it chopped liver?

SPEAKER_06 3:10

Why is it chopped? Why is it just liver?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Why don't you just say liver? Why is it chopped liver? Like, is it crap if it's chopped? When's the last time you ate chopped liver? I've never eaten liver. Exactly. Oh, uh, they do fried are those fried livers? Nope.

SPEAKER_06 3:24

Well, that's chicken livers, yeah. Chicken livers, that's why.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

I fish with chicken liver. If you're in the South, they eat, they take chicken livers and fry them and eat it.

SPEAKER_06 3:32

I remember when I was growing up, it's interesting. My grandparents, Papa and Nanny, one of Papa's like most requested meals when it wasn't family night was liver and onions.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

It's got such a different texture. I'm not even against the flavor. I'll eat it. That's fine with me. But the texture of the floor.

SPEAKER_06 3:49

And I spent a lot of time there growing up, even as an adult. I spent a lot of time with Nanny, and I had I was there sometimes when she would cook it, and I'm like, why on God's green earth would he eat that?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Now I'm about to- So if you eat liver, you need to comment and tell us why it's so good. Because I would be interested at the time.

SPEAKER_06 4:06

Well, if Thomas was here, he could tell us.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I I mean, I'm about as southern as you get. Yeah. Like I was born and raised here. I've I mean, I I've driven tractors, I've rode cows, I've done the whole thing. You're a farm boy. Like, but I can't like chicken livers and buttermilk are the two most southern things. I cannot eat it. Buttermilk, just drink it. Yeah, buttermilk. But it's a very southern thing. Yeah, it's very southern.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

My grandmother used to drink it every day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Like just to make a glass of buttermilk. Grandpa literally would drink a glass of buttermilk and eat cornbread. And I thought it was a nasty.

SPEAKER_06 4:36

My grandparents would pour buttermilk over cornbread and eat it like kind of like a cereal. Oh, that sounds delicious. Well, there's buttermilk in our refrigerator that his mother gave us, that Greg's mother gave us because we were talking about making fried chicken. Why not give it to me?

SPEAKER_01 4:51

She's like, you don't have to worry about it going bad because it's already bad when you buy it.

SPEAKER_06 4:54

We're going to the beach, so you can't do anything with it.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

All right, but anyway, let's stay back on topic. We've already derailed.

SPEAKER_06 5:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

So we have a we're so we're going to talk about something today that's kind of fun. We're going to get into question time. Uh, but for those of you who are out there, if you want to jump on our Patreon, uh, we're going to record an episode on this where we're probably going to get into some more stuff that we're just not going to discuss here. Um it gets a little more what would you say? Unfiltered?

SPEAKER_06 5:22

Yeah, unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Unfiltered, less guardrails. So I guess we do, even though we do go off the rails a bit, we do always try to bring it back.

SPEAKER_06 5:29

We do.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

When it comes to Patreon, it's kind of like fair game. Yeah, it's just like we're just gonna talk about everything. But anyway, let's jump into uh question. Oh, excuse me. I could actually sing today. It worked.

SPEAKER_06 5:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

So Eastern Man is owned.

SPEAKER_06 5:48

Okay. So this is a question, and I can describe it a little bit better after I actually read it. And this is from a book that we've used this whole entire how many episodes are we at now?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

50 something.

SPEAKER_06 6:01

Something. Um it's a couple's journal, a year of us, one question a day to spark fun and meaningful conversations by Alicia Munoz. And it has just been the best. Um we'll Okay, never mind. Um Describe the pros and cons of your most visible or most socially valued talent or skill. Read it one more time. Because I'm a teacher and that's what we do. Describe the pros and cons of your most visible or most socially valued talent or skill. I feel like those are two different categories your most visible skill or social situation or the most valued. Those are very different.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

I don't think so. I think mine kind of go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Well, it also depends on who's doing the valuing. That's true. Because if you're talking about what's your spouse's most valued talent. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Because it could be completely different.

SPEAKER_06 6:57

Should we switch it up? No.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

No, no. I think mine, this is my I am a social butterfly.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Like I do not thrive by myself. When I walk into a room of people, strangers mainly, I light up. Like I get excited. Um and it just it it it's fun for me. Um so that's the so I I never meet a stranger. I can talk to anybody anywhere about anything. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. I just enjoy it. Um the con to that is is that I sometimes and most frequently forget that I have someone with me. Yes, uh that being Jess most of the time. And I'm just off to the races and Jess is not the that way.

SPEAKER_06 7:43

So that brings us to myself. My most it's not valuable, it's probably the most visible skill. No, it's not a skill, but I am very quiet in social situations, and that can come off looking like you don't care, you're not into it. Or I am a watcher and I I really pay attention to what people are saying, who they're sitting with. Like I pay attention to the whole big picture, I don't jump in it at first. It takes me a while, and a lot of people probably be like, I didn't think you were really nice when I first met you. You get that comment.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

You get that comment a lot.

SPEAKER_06 8:22

I do.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I can relate to that big time.

SPEAKER_06 8:25

But then after people get to know me, they're like, No, you're literally the sweetest person.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

You know what's weird is when people get to know you, they like you more than me.

SPEAKER_06 8:32

A lot of people do like me more than you. If my hair's up, but I would tolerate more.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I like you both equally. Thank you. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_06 8:38

No, that is not true at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

But I will say, uh everybody, it's no.

SPEAKER_06 8:43

If you tolerate me, you Oh, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

That's not tolerating. No, that's not. You just I you it you're not going to find someone who doesn't like Jess.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Like it's very, very rare. If they know Jess. Yeah. If they know her, they love her.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Me, on the other hand, different story.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Like Greg's like, they don't like me and they know why they don't like me.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah, they're very specific in exactly why they don't like me. And I don't, I mean, it's it's that love-hate relationship. Either you love me or you're just like, get that guy away from me.

SPEAKER_06 9:11

No, being your spouse and the social butterfly scene, um, just watching it and then hearing other people's reactions. Um you want to, like as a butterfly, you just want to flit around and talk to everybody in the whole room. And then some of those people feel like, well, he wasn't really engaged with me in a conversation. He was really ready to move on to the next person in the first 15 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

But I'm not.

SPEAKER_06 9:36

I know. I know.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Because we were there the other we talked about this. My ADD really works well sometimes in these situations. Because I'm in a conversation with a guy in the lobby of this church, and he's talking to me about the process of how they do this, this, and this. And I was like, okay, cool. But I could hear out of my other ear, Jess was in a conversation with someone else about something that had happened, blah, blah, blah. There was something that and I had a picture of that on my phone. So while he's talking, I just pulled my phone out, found the picture, and I just turned it to Jess. And I'm still talking to this other guy.

SPEAKER_06 10:08

But that guy sees that.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

And I'm engaged with her, and he's like, Oh, you're done with me. And but I wasn't, and I didn't make him feel that way. I didn't, or maybe I I tried not to. No.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

So it's you know, well, it happens because I'm I'm the same way. I'm kind of like, I've got feet in both camps because I am an introvert through and through. But due to what I do for a living and also what I do for a calling, is you're a learned extrovert. I am very much a learned extrovert. So, like, if I'm at an event that I'm helping lead and I'm helping being being a part of leadership of that event, yes, I'm gonna go like be a part of what's going on. I'm gonna help lead the room, you know what I mean? Or the lobby or whatever that is. And it's funny because Greg, you even had to ask me one time. We went to a concert, um, and I forget who it was. It was a Larry Fleet.

SPEAKER_06 11:02

It was either Larry Fleet or Drake White, because you went to both of those.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

I think it was a Larry Fleet concert. Yes. But uh then afterwards there were a bunch of y'all's friends there, and so we all went out to the patio outside the concert venue. Yeah, there's another segment of live music, yeah, fire pits, couches, all like conversation, but it's also like a restaurant, too. Yeah, all in one kind of like so uh we're out there sitting and I'm just chilling by the fireplace, and like an hour goes by and I'm like By yourself, I'm just watching. Like you said, I'm I'm very much a watcher, I'm an observer. Um, and Greg comes up to me, he's like, Hey, are you all right? Like, is everything good? And I'm like, nah, this is great. Like, I'm enjoying myself. Yeah, but I don't know that you would ever see me in an environment where I wasn't leading.

SPEAKER_06 11:48

Yeah, not a whole lot, yeah. Yeah, not like or you and I both like because although I'm an introvert, I knew those people, so I was very much involved in those conversations and I was like in the like quote unquote group.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:02

But when it's you, you're the same way. Like if you know the people in the group.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:09

But if we're not comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

I mean, that's like us here for Georgia Games. Like, yeah, we get have fun, get rowdy, do our thing.

SPEAKER_06 12:14

But if we're not comfortable, we're very much outside watchers. Greg is like, nope, I'm here. Here we are. My name's Greg. Everybody be my friend. Miranda, what about you? I know the answer, but what about you?

SPEAKER_04 12:27

I'm good at making myself invisible. You're a watcher.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, you're definitely.

SPEAKER_06 12:33

You're a watcher for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yeah. I'll take some Miranda sometimes and be like, Are you at home? What are you doing? Can I come hang out? Like Or bring Blue over. Yeah, you're doing something. You don't want to come over here? Y'all come over here and hang out. Like, I'm just like, I gotta get out of it. This is just to tell you a picture of my life, like where I'm at right now. I carry the trash to the to the up to the road to the road yesterday. So I'm pushing trash up. I see my neighbor Mike, he's out there. And I'm like, Mike, what's up? And Mike's like, Greg. So we come up, meet, and then the other neighbor comes up. Yeah, he's putting his trash. I said, We hang out for like five minutes and just chat.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Totally Greg.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

I was like, dude, we're going to the driving range this week. Like, let's get this done. He's like, okay. So this is like, we sit, I come back and I was like, yeah, I gotta hang out with Mike for a little bit. Of course you did.

SPEAKER_06 13:20

You may take in trash as social time.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, it's like that's that's my personality in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_06 13:26

So But what has become well, as comforting to me, it's probably not for you as much. It may feel like you're dragging me, but like our roles in crowds. Um it took you a little bit to learn. Like I'm going to very much be under your wing and I will become more comfortable, but like that's just kind of become our roles as a couple in a social situation.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah, yeah. It did it did take a little. And then we have this social, we talked about this before, and it's so funny. I I love people, but there's a lot of people you meet that I just I'm horrible with names. I know the face, but it's hard for me to put the name of the face.

SPEAKER_06 14:04

So so many times Thankfully, I'm good at remembering the names and the faces.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

And so if she knows Jess knows when I start talking, like literally as soon as I start talking, she can tell me either I know that person or I don't know that person. I can remember, and sometimes she'll she'll say, Hey, so and so, she'll say their name, which means like, oh yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_06 14:25

Yeah. Oh, I do it on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Well, and it's crazy how that one trigger helps bring back all the other memories. But I can just like, okay, now, because it's like I know I know this person, but it is not clicking in my brain. Then you hear their name and it's like the flood of memories in every connection you have.

SPEAKER_06 14:42

But sometimes Steven connections from his life before me that I I just have learned through either social media or like one or two interactions in the past 14 years.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Nobody's gonna hear this that experienced this. So we signed up to help greet at our church for Easter Sunday, and so we're on the front doors, and we're getting these sweet ladies come up, and I'm these elderly Landscape. And they're just like, hey, Greg, and I was like, Hey. Well say hey Lynn.

SPEAKER_06 15:11

And if it's a if it's an older lady, he'll you say, hello, ma'am, with your southern self.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, so I I I couldn't remember their name. I knew who they were.

SPEAKER_06 15:23

She was on a mission to get in church and she stopped and hugged, and hey, Greg, I ain't seen you in so long.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

And as she was letting go of the hug, she was walking in the door, and I didn't get a chance to be like Because our normal MO is when we see that happening, I go, Hey, this is my wife Jess.

SPEAKER_06 15:41

And I'm like, hey, I'm Jess. It's so nice to meet you. And that's when they say their name to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

And if you're that person who someone says, Hey, my name's so-and-so, and you don't say your name back, I think you should lose social points. Like, I think there should be some kind of social point. Like you should have to pay a fine. Like because it's the that's horrible.

SPEAKER_06 16:04

But anyway, so I got a little bit scolded after church that day because you were like, you didn't say, you didn't introduce. I'm like, bro, as soon as she was letting go of you, like one arm was still on you, and the other half of her was in the door. Like I didn't get a chance.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

So today we're gonna talk about rolls. Rolls. Not the uh not jelly roll or the dinner rolls. Not dinner rolls, even though there's some really good dinner rolls in there.

SPEAKER_06 16:29

Ooh, Tesla Schroadhouse rolls.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Ooh. Miranda could eat her weight in those things. I couldn't. Which is weird because I don't see Miranda eat her weight in much of anything.

SPEAKER_06 16:37

Much of anything.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

No. Yeah. I don't like bread. Like if you took bread completely out of my system, I think I would be okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

He doesn't like no you don't like bread. I mean, I can understand not liking all bread.

SPEAKER_06 16:49

As a delivery device, yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

I'll eat bread because you gotta have a in order to have a sandwich, you gotta have a bread.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

I have a sandwich today. You did, actually.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

So you tell me you're sitting down at like Texas Roadhouse and they bring out those rolls. He'll have maybe a half of tables. And it's got that honey cinnamon butter. You're not about to slabber like a whole tablespoon of butter on that roll and just put it down.

SPEAKER_06 17:11

No, he'll maybe have half of one.

unknown 17:13

Bro.

SPEAKER_06 17:14

He'll have half of one so I don't feel bad about myself, but then I'll eat the rest of the stuff. I will I will put down the whole thing. Or we know Charlie's was still open here in our channel. Have you ever had fats? Who? Fats. F-A-T-Z? Yeah. No, but I've seen it.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Those rolls were amazing. Hmm. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I'm just not a bread guy. I do love it. I do love my mom's cornbread though. Like I would dominate that. And I don't even like it.

SPEAKER_06 17:41

I feel like cornbread's a whole category by itself. I can't do milk.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Cornbread's a very much a south thing.

SPEAKER_06 17:46

Oh man. Your mother's cornbread is up there with my grandmother's cornbread, and that's ain't a lot.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

And I don't I don't drink milk at all anymore. But if I go to my mom's and she has cornbread, I will crumble it into a bowl and pour milk over it. Warm cornbread. Yeah, it's so dang good.

SPEAKER_06 18:01

That's like southern cereal.

Household Roles And Expectations

SPEAKER_01 18:03

I don't it is southern cereal. It is, yes. And I don't I don't I don't do that much, but yeah. So anyway, we're talking about roles. The actual roles, but yeah, actual roles as a man and a woman in the household. So it's it's one of those interesting things. What'd you say?

SPEAKER_00 18:20

What's happening? I spelled it and she was looking at me like I was funny.

SPEAKER_06 18:24

And I was like, And then I was like, oh wait, no, you actually did spell it right. Because I was still thinking about R O L L S.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

I was homeschooled. I know what I'm talking about. I can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I'll tell you this about Jess, though. She her teacher side loves. I love to correct. She loves to correct.

SPEAKER_06 18:38

I correct grammar. I can understand that. Correcting grammar, especially in adult.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

It's like a turn-on for her.

SPEAKER_06 18:44

It's a it's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:45

It's it's my favorite. You can forever correct me.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Oh, I get corrected all the time, but I've got a point where I'm like, You I just have to correct your spelling when you type something out.

SPEAKER_06 18:54

Him though, I'm like, you said that wrong.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Yeah, she loves it. All right, I've got questions for the Patreon. We gotta keep going because I I'm gonna get us derailed socially. Okay, sorry. So we'll get it, we'll get into all those. We'll go the other way.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

We need to get on uh get focused on the street.

SPEAKER_06 19:07

So we talked about our like roles like socially for you and I as a couple, but what we want to talk about is roles like as a husband and wife in the family.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 19:17

Because what we've learned over the years of just watching people and being people is that men identify as certain things and women identify as certain things.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yes. Whether they and I know there's this stereotype and I may catch hate for this.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

It it it it's okay. Um I'm okay with it anyway. Um women identify m a lot of times in the household as the caregiver and the man prov is is as the provider. In today's time you have uh dual income families just because you have to do that to survive. Um and so it's just it's you know, it's one of those things, but even in those circumstances when the woman is still has a job she's providing, the man is doing those things, there's sometimes these underlaying roles and expectations that are there, and we've talked about those expectations, but I want to actually talk about have you talked about with your significant other in the sense of, hey, what do you expect me to take care of? Right and what do I expect you to take care of? Like, what's your role in this relationship?

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Like, because you know when we walk into a crowded room, I know my role is, I'm gonna lead this. And then I'm gonna I'm gonna lead the the this this way.

SPEAKER_06 20:26

And I'm gonna hang on to your arm. I'm just gonna protect my arm and I'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

I'm gonna introduce you and we're gonna we're gonna go through this process. So it's like, okay, we get that, but what happens in our home? Yeah, like what happens with our kids? Um, because I remember so many times, and you tell me this too. You're like, um, after you lost TJ, you know, because you have that like wait till your dad gets home.

SPEAKER_06 20:48

I didn't have nothing.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yeah. So when dad was there, you're like, Oh my god, that's just me. And then you called your dad, you're like, you gotta come over here.

SPEAKER_06 20:55

I did. I called my daddy. I was like, Dad, I need you. He was like, Okay, what'd Thomas do now? Typically, it was a Thomas thing. And I was like, I would give him like a whole rundown, and he'd be like, I'll be there in 10 minutes. And so, but yeah, I didn't have the, you know, wait till your daddy gets home to this, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Sometimes the dad is the enforcer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

And in the in that growing up, wait till your dad gets home. I was terrified. Yeah, and that's like the anticipation is worse. It's horrible. It's worse than getting actually in trouble.

SPEAKER_06 21:22

If Thomas were here, he would say that the the pop coming over to take pop's belt off to give that spank or that whatever that talking to or whatever. He would spank him.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

He'd pop his own.

SPEAKER_06 21:39

It was just like, and both of them were like, we don't ever want to do that again. And it's like it took one time. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

So we have these almost unspoken roles in in marriages and relationships. And we uh we never really just sit and talk about them with our other spouse. And so what we want to do is just kind of spark the conversation. And kick this snowball down the hill and see what comes of it and say, just what if you just start talking about it? Like what if you just start the conversation?

SPEAKER_06 22:08

I've I think I know I think I know that when we blended our family, we started off differently than a lot of blended families because you work for yourself. And at that point you have sold some companies. And so you pretty I mean you were available, not pretty much. You were available always. And so, you know, the getting into the rhythm of going to school and I forgot this or I need that or like you were readily available. And that's not normal for a lot of marriages, uh blended families or marriages in general. And so then when you did go back to work full time, it it took a little there was a little growing pains for us to figure out.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

It was, but even then I still had a lot of time. Uh because I think when I did go back to work full time, it was at a church. Um but that's the other thing too. I want that's again talking about roles. A role for me, a huge, huge priority was me is I want to have a job that allows me to have time with my family.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah.

When Work Becomes Identity

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Uh and I'm I know when I say yes to significant time with my family, I'm saying no to probably a pay raise or a promotion or those kind of things. I'm like, but that's okay. I don't, I'm not this is more important to me than that. That's it. Sometimes enrolled, like men never really stop to think about that. We and and so many times, and if you're a guy out there and you're listening to this, first off I want to say, I wanna uh guys get off your freaking high horse of thinking that you don't need help, you don't need a third party, somebody to speak into your life.

SPEAKER_06 23:44

If you don't have it all figured out.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

No, and if you think you got it all figured out, you're so freaking far behind, just stop. Bro, just get somebody who's in your life who can be open and honest with you. Um I was and and so I don't care if it's about mental health, the money, uh relationship with your wife, whatever it may be, wherever it's at, dude, if you're it's you're not that big that you can't ask for help. But so many times it shouldn't be. Right. But so many times as men, we think about no, I have to put up this tough, tough front that I've got it all figured out, I've got these things done. But we take this role as provider, and then it we take something that God's giving us a gift to be able to do this, and we turn it into something that's not great. It becomes our identity.

SPEAKER_06 24:31

It's who you are.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah, like you get a group of guys together within five seconds of actually talking about the weather or why they're at there, the next question that comes up So what do you do? Yeah, is always so what do you do for a living? And so as men so true. Yeah, we identify our identity with what we do, not who we are, but what we do. Um, and we do it so much that when we lose our job or things go wrong at our job, we get all jacked up in our head, and then it affects us as people, which again affects our home life because it affects our wife and our spouse and our kids, because our identity is tied to that job where they pay us money, not with something deeper than that. And so as dudes, I I I want to encourage you to just kind of hit pause and say, Who am I? Like, it's if you if you hang out with a bunch of guys, you'd be like, Hey, Michael, man, what's something you're passionate about? Right now, if there was money was no limit, what's something you would do? If I asked that question a bunch of guys, they'd be like, uh uh, I don't I don't I don't I don't know.

Parenting Identity And Marriage Balance

SPEAKER_00 25:34

No, it would I think either one they would have an immediate answer because they're truly passionate about it and they wish they could do more of it. But they don't get to. That's true. Or yes, you're absolutely right. It's uh I'm so far down this road of I only do this, I just for my what I do for a living, that they don't ever do what their passions are. Right.

SPEAKER_06 25:54

And then on the flip side for women, it's it's not I mean, most like you said earlier, um most women now we do work full-time jobs. Um the really there's kind of few and far between where there's women and young moms that get to stay home full-time. Um so but we still we still anchor our identity in our children and our home and those kinds of things. We we don't have a true identity identity of our own selves. It's so in a group of men, that's what you said, but in a group of women, so tell me about yourself. Well, I've got I've got four kids and they're this, this, this, an age old, and it's like, oh, and also I'm a teacher. You know, those kinds of things. Like we've we get wrapped up and forget that like we're actually people too.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Right. Well, it's because as as crazy as it is, you you get drawn into your kids' activities, their life, their social life, their sports, whatever it may be. Guys do this too. So it's not wrong.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

And that's what I was just thinking in my head too. Like when my kids were little, when Thomas and Aaron Grace were little, I had spells of time where I was a stay-at-home mom. And they were my life at that point, and play dates and you know, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Um, the question is how do you manage that in a healthy way?

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

So then I was gonna become the I was gonna ask even before looking at how do you manage that in a healthy way, what are the cons of falling into that and living in that?

SPEAKER_06 27:29

Well, I I feel like you forget you're a person. And I'm looking at Miranda, because right now you have the absolute blessing. The most adorable kid. Oh my gosh. Being a stay-at-home mommy with Lulu. And I mean, she is your life right now. Um, as you're checking the monitor in your hand, she's it's snap time for Lou. Um, but what would you say are the pros and the cons of that right now for you?

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Well, the hardest part just I only know Thomas' career as a firefighter, and that adds a whole nother layer to it. It's so very true. So it's really hard because he also has a second job that he works nine to five most days on his off days from the fire department.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

So, like we don't really get to see him much. Right. So you you and Lulu have your routine pre-adown pat. Not pre-adown pat. It's like a machine. Yeah. And well, she's very good at her cues. So she's made it be a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

We were literally over there last night. We went to hang out. I was doing some projects around the house and it was winding down, and she's like, You're like, Do you want to go to bed? And she gets her blanket and her little stuff feels just like yes. She nodded her head. She has her head, yes.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

And then pointed and then started walking to her room.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:50

So I was like, Well, okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Yeah. She's time to go to bed.

SPEAKER_06 28:53

Well, even when y'all got here today and it was time for her nap, and it was like, You ready to go night night? And you picked her up, Greg, and she had her stuff in your blanket. She laid her head down and nodded her head yes. I was like, Okay, well, but so she's made your routine pretty pretty down pat. Yes. But you've also been really in tune to that, which has been like a big focus for you. So have you found that it's hard to to navigate being like, Yes, you're mommy 24 hours a day, but then you're also a wife when Thomas is home? Because you've got your routine. I feel like I know when I um I just interrupted you. I asked you a question and I was just I'm still talking. But when I was a stay-at-home mom and TJ would work, you know, 10 hours a day, and he would come home, and yes, you want him to dive into what you're doing and help and hands-on, but it was like, no, I got it. I know it we I got it. You just just I got it. Like, do you ever feel that way?

SPEAKER_04 29:52

Yeah. But I also because of what he sees, to me, it's like you need to decompress. True. Which is like he coming from let me just do it. Right.

unknown 30:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

But I think you can have that in every job. I'm not saying there's a balance. Yeah, I'm not saying firefighters are different. But like firefighting here in Hall County is 95% medical calls, five percent fires, and even out of those five percent, there's probably like two that are actually fires. Right. Um, so it's basically an in the MT. Yeah, a lot of medical stuff. But it's time they see some weird stuff. But a lot of times they don't. I mean, a lot of times they just hang out with dudes and and again, I am not slamming our firemen because I love you guys. I love what they do. And what's the thing? I'm just saying, I think there's a balance even in in like if you're not a fireman, you're a police officer, you may I mean there may be days where you don't see anything, there may be high stress days. So it's like figuring out what as a dude, figuring out what that balance looks like. So how do I decompress? How do I share with you that I need to decompress? Like this is what I saw.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

I need some time just to kind of chill. But then again, I think it also comes back to being able to separate your identity versus what you do.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

100%.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

On it, because and I say that again, because I agree with you, not to take away from the things that they go through or that all of us go through, whether you're a guy or a girl working at a full-time job. Because I mean, you may have a job that's incredibly demanding, regardless of technically quote unquote what you see or what you don't see that day, um, depending on the stress of your job. But like there may be days you need to decompress. But also realize your identity is so much more than just what you do.

SPEAKER_06 31:39

It's very true.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

That hit me when I lost my job. I didn't lose it. I left my job. And I was like, okay. When I left that, and it was weird for me. Like it was a weird internal was there like a redefining of your identity? Yeah, I just didn't know who I was. It was just weird. People are like, what do you do? I don't know. Nothing. That's a good question. You know, it's like it's it's so it's a weird, it's it's a weird that just maybe it kind of opened my eyes to it to say, um, because it's crazy we give our life to that thing as a job, but I mean, they very easily can replace you. But we've as guys, we stake so much into that. Our identity of who we are, how we act. It's just scary.

SPEAKER_06 32:21

And too, when you you don't know you're doing it nine times out of ten, but when you lose yourself and your identity of what you do uh outside the home, you you lose sight of what you what your value is inside the home, I feel like sometimes.

Time Versus Stuff For Kids

SPEAKER_01 32:38

I would agree with that. Because so many times you're going to um as a couple, like staying connected just means you have to be more intentional and you have to work harder at it. Uh the more kids you have, the more intentional you had to be, and the harder you had to work.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Uh if you're busy at it, to just constantly because I always we've said this a thousand times on here, and I say it to our kids, and I'll say it to you, uh, your kids are gonna leave. Um, and it's gonna be the two of you. So if your identity is found in what you do, it's found in your kids when they leave, where's your identity?

SPEAKER_06 33:08

Or if your identity is found in how many different sports you can take your kids to and be involved in and out of state this and all that. I would just say be careful. It is going to come to a screeching halt, and it's not gonna matter.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

I would say be very, very careful with that. I'm not saying don't. I'm just saying have a conversation with each other. Why are we doing this? What do we hope to get out of this? It's fun, you're gonna have experiences. We had fun traveling with Thomas doing mountain biking on weekends, and it was great. Did we think that was gonna be his future? No.

SPEAKER_06 33:42

No.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Uh we knew what it was going in.

SPEAKER_06 33:45

Did us and the three other kids have fun doing it? Most of the time. Yeah, most, not always. They got to see a lot of stuff and they got to be involved in a lot of things and make extra, you know, friends that they wouldn't have made other places. But the thing that is so hard to keep in mind when you're so in the thick of it, especially if you're you've lost your identity and who you are versus what am I doing for my kids. Well, when that all comes to a reaching halt, or when your job changes, or when you retire, and then all of that's over, then then what?

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Well, I'd like to pose it this way. Um, and even in the sense, like I look at my surroundings, the environments I've been in. One, just being in ministry, you hear many stories all the time of, you know, parents working with their being empty nesters, basically. But then also in my personal experience, like my parents, watching them work through those transitions of life stages. Um, and I mean, yeah, some of it was great, some of it was hard to work through. Even as a child who's an adult, parents working through that, seeing the differences of how we interact, all of that. But then it makes me question this like as we raise kids, we constantly help work them through to the next stage of their life. Whether it be okay, well, what do you want to do for college?

SPEAKER_06 35:05

Oh my god, sometimes we want to do it for them so bad.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

I just want you know, and and we we want to help work them through the stage they're currently in to help them be better and the best they can be in the next stage. But who's doing that for parents?

SPEAKER_06 35:20

Who's doing that for yourself? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

That's a good question. You know, we we do all these things, even when our kids are in college, we're like, okay, well, hey, what do we want to help? You know, what do you want to do with your life? What kind of job do you want to have? What kind of life do you want to live? We help people work into and prepare for their next stage of life. But for parents, who who invests in that?

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Right. Who teaches us how to learn? And and part of us, me saying, I don't know because I'm not a parent.

SPEAKER_06 35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

But also look at those friends of mine around me and my brothers and people who have kids who do all these things. Who's teaching them how to live their next stage of life?

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Well, it's easy to get caught up in the hype of all the stuff that's going on. When you get in, like when you your kids get into sports, it's easy to get caught in the hype of all of that. And they sing in the city. Yeah, you're busy and you're crazy. Because as guys, we go back to that thing again, talking about guys, and if I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times. And men, this is one of the excuses we hide under is we say, Well, I want my kids to have it better than I did. I want my kids to have it better than I did. So that's why I work so hard. And I'm just like, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 36:29

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Like, what do you what do you mean you wanted them to have it? You want to be able to buy them a brand new car when they turn 60?

SPEAKER_06 36:35

You want them to have a nicer car or play more sports or have nicer clothes? Okay, why?

SPEAKER_01 36:40

When they ask for something, you want to be able to buy it for them, no questions asked. I'm like, stop. I'm all I'm asking, and I'm not saying those things are wrong. No, they're not. I'm I'm actually saying stop and ask yourself the question, why? Why do I want my kids to have all this crap as opposed to them having my time and having me? And if you say, well, they have me and they have all the time, I would say BS.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

No.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

You give up something to get something. It's it's that's very, very, very, very rare. Uh I'm not saying it's not possible. It's very rare that it does happen. So I'm just saying all I want to do is go just slow down, tap the brakes and ask a question. What are we doing?

SPEAKER_06 37:19

I would much rather our four kids and then the in-laws and grandkids that come along. I would much rather have been them be able to say, G and JJ worked on giving us their selves and their time instead of every time I say I want something, they gave it to me.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Well, when we live in a pretty affluent area.

SPEAKER_06 37:40

We do.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Um, and you go to a a high school and you see fifty, sixty thousand dollar car sitting there, and you see, I mean, all of and I'm not slamming, you worked hard. You may have worked hard. I don't know your situation. May have won lottery. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. But I always tell Jess, I was like, I don't how are you setting your kid up for success when they're that young? And you're giving them that. I was like, just because you can buy them that, does that mean you should?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

I'm just asking the question. Don't be mad at me. If you're mad at me, then that's fun. And if you're pissed and you're going, well, I make enough money, I can do it at one. You are 100% correct. You can.

SPEAKER_06 38:17

Yeah, you can. But I'm just saying, teaching your children.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, is that the best thing to teach?

SPEAKER_06 38:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

And so as as a like your kids will emulate everything you do from how you work, how you talk to each other, how you run your household, how you how you discipline, how you handle conflict, all those things are are are what they're watching, they're sponges and they're soaking it up and they're going to do the same thing.

Gray Hair Divorce And Staying Connected

SPEAKER_06 38:45

So So if we kind of switch gears to an unpack thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah, we need to switch it to the phone.

SPEAKER_06 38:50

Something that you told me the other day that you had read, or I don't know if you heard it or saw it on YouTube or whatever, um, about gray haired divorces, it really like was it was shocking to me.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Yeah, it's definitely this one of the largest growing sectors of divorce that are happening now, and they're calling them gray hair divorces, uh, which means kids move off, they go to college, they went through high school, they go to college, and then um parents, these parents are staying together till then, and then they get divorced when the kids leave and go off to college.

SPEAKER_06 39:20

That is so heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

And it spurs from this idea of of what we've been talking about. Yeah, all the things we've been talking about, and they lost connection and they get to the point where I don't know you, I don't even love you, I don't even like you, all those things.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Well, your identities are based on two complete different things.

SPEAKER_06 39:34

Yes, yeah, and you don't know each other anymore.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:37

I'm I'm proud of us and I know that our story is different, but we have always worked really hard to make sure we have date nights at least once a month, and you know, they could just be like grab Taco Bell and go home and watch a movie, or we would have an overnight somewhere, but once a year we would go off for a week in the summer just to make sure that we stay connected. Um, because we had four kids together that were literally within four years of each other, and it was very, very, very busy. And we could have easily gotten lost in some of these traps that we've been talking about. Um so I think that one thing that's really important to remember is to stay connected.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yes. I think if you want to know the unpack for this, be connected to your spouse and be intentional.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Intentional and connected. Those are the two things.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Being connected does not mean you live together.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

No, it's not your roommate. That's uh I'm having in like good like the conversations for like, hey, when the kids leave, what's something you'd love to do? Like, what does a perfect Saturday look like for you? And a lot of times I know you may be in the thick of it and your Saturdays are spent on ball fields right now.

SPEAKER_06 40:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

I get that.

SPEAKER_06 40:46

We've lived it.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yes. There's gonna be a time where they're not. Um, but I would also tell you there's gonna be a season. If you don't have a season throughout the year, even in fall, winter, spring, if you're playing ball 24-7 all year round, and you don't have that time, I'm gonna say you probably ought to tap the brakes and figure out why you're doing that. Like what's the end goal? Um what are you after? Yeah, um, it's just so crazy how that has become the norm. And and not loving your spouse or saying no to a kid playing something and saying yes to a family has not become the the norm. It just it baffles me.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

I think it all comes back to identity individually, it it all comes back to the roles and identity that we play. Because doing that, and you've said this many, many times before, if you're gone every weekend, that's not wrong. But if that is what's taking over the identity, yeah, then the method in doing it is completely wrong. But if the reasoning's behind it and your hearts towards each other and your each perspective of your identity is built on something that is stronger, doing that's not an issue at all.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

And we've always said this everything in moderation. Your job, great thing. Could be a great thing. You're your travel, traveling and doing sports, great thing. When it becomes everything, and there's not a weekend you're at home, there's not a time you're not working, there's not a time. If you say you love golf, if every weekend I'm playing golf, I'm not spending time. There's a time where it's like there's moderation in life just periods.

SPEAKER_06 42:22

Two of your kids are doing travel sports and you've got multiple kids, and okay, well, I'm gonna go with this one to wherever, and you're gonna go with this one to wherever. It's like, okay, well, why?

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:34

Why?

Patreon Invite And Closing

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Just know that will take your that will it'll take a toll on you. It will be intentional to to to try to keep that from not. So we're gonna wrap up here. Yeah. Uh we're gonna continue this conversation actually on Patreon, uh where we can dig in and get a little more unfiltered. Um and so if you want to hear more, you can go jump on Patreon, uh, listen to those. Uh make sure to go to our website, unpacktogether.com. We got some new stuff coming. There we're gonna have a um a baggage claim audit there to kind of see where you are in the you versus us versus family.

SPEAKER_06 43:06

Don't forget we've got merch too.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

You can go check that out. Get the merch. Uh go check all that out. Thanks for subscribing, listening, doing all those fun things. So uh love you guys. And um, anything else to add before we go? Good dogs. Good dogs.