Who Holds Your Hand When Life Hurts

Some nights we want to show up upbeat and polished, but real life doesn’t always cooperate. We’re recording after a week that feels way too heavy, and instead of pretending we’re fine, we sit in the truth: it’s okay to not be okay. If you’re carrying grief, stress, or that quiet dread you can’t explain, we want you to hear this clearly. You’re not broken. You’re human.

We talk about what heavy seasons do to marriage and relationships, especially when one person is deeply affected and the other feels numb, practical, or ready to “fix it.” We unpack why validation can be more loving than advice, why silence can sometimes be support, and how work culture and social media can train us to perform instead of process. We also share the kind of perspective that helped us most: people who can look at your life like a movie producer and point out what you can’t see from inside the moment.

Community comes up again and again because isolation is gasoline on emotional pain. We end by reminding you that you don’t have to walk this alone and by sharing ways to connect with us, plus our free 27-question audit at unpacktogether.com to help you figure out where you are and what a next step could be.

If this hits home, subscribe to Baggage Claim, share it with a friend who needs a steady voice, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations. What’s one thing you wish someone would say to you when life gets heavy?

Transcript

Welcome And Setting The Tone

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, what's up? I'm Greg. I hope you guys are ready to unpack and get into some good conversations today.

jess 0:07

And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast, Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

What's up, Baggage Claim? How's everybody doing today? Um, man, what a crazy week it has been already. If you're new to Baggage Claim, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Uh, it is a fun adventure. This is a place where we're hoping to create some community, some conversations around marriages, blended families, uh, and all those things in between. Sometimes we get off track and we talk about crazy stuff. But if you call baggage claim your home, thank you for calling it your home. Thank you for listening to us. Thank you for the shares, the downloads. You guys are awesome. You rock. Um, and so here we are. I feel like I need to take a really deep breath.

jess 0:56

I want to say thank you for doing the intro each time because even though I know what should be said and what you say every time, I know that if I tried it, I wouldn't draw a blank and I would just sit here. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

It's my pleasure.

Michael 1:12

Oh, one day you're gonna you're just gonna dominate. You've never asked me to do the intro. Yes, you're right. I haven't. I've never asked you that my question. I don't know if that day will ever come.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

It made I so worked.

Michael 1:26

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Throw that out there. Thanks, man. You had to watch it.

jess 1:30

I do appreciate that you just wanted to let you know I appreciate that.

A Heavy Week And Silence

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Oh, thank you. So tonight's episode can be it's probably it's gonna be heavy. Um it's gonna be man, it's it's I would just say it's Tuesday and it feels like it's been it's been a heavy week. A really big week. So far.

jess 1:50

Yeah, like yesterday was three days long.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yes. Today was at least two days long. At least is part of the episode of just being real and honest about where we're at, what we're in. Um no judgment here. No matter what you're in or where you're at, where you're going through. Um we're not here to judge you. We're just here to say, hey, we love you. Um and to provide some insight if we can. But yesterday was we probably had a first again. We had another first yesterday. Um we s we sit in a living room. It was weird. We had music playing and we would sit in a living room and we didn't really say anything for like a couple hours.

jess 2:32

Yeah, a long time.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

And every now and then I would just get up and go walk outside. I think just because I needed a I I had to had some kind of distraction, my brain was and so I went out and just started listening to the birds.

jess 2:46

But then you got annoyed with the birds?

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yeah, I did.

jess 2:50

I didn't get annoyed. Isn't that awesome? And he said, I wonder if the birds ever run out of words to say. They never stop. They just never stop. And you went on this whole like I did.

Michael 3:02

I was circling the trail.

jess 3:03

Circling my nerves.

Michael 3:05

Well, I'll say, even one thing I appreciate, and I know we've had a few episodes where we say, like, hey, this is a heavy episode. I think if if you just go surface level, even life is gonna have heavy seasons. Yeah. And I think many times, because I know this in my past, sometimes we just disassociate from it and we try to move on without even thinking it through, processing it, or and sometimes being able to sit in what can be hurt in appreciation even um, and I know that sounds really weird and wrong, but I like the fact that we can sit here and just say, guys, it's been a heavy week. And we can communicate, understanding what we're all walking through is heavy right now.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Well, I think Jess too, there's probably a part of her that didn't know what to do because I mean I was I was emotionally like I I guess the the best word would be train wrecked yesterday. Like I would just be sitting in the chair and it's weird, I'd just get emotional and start crying. And it was just it was heavy, heavy day. Yeah, it was so a lot going on. And we're not I don't want to get into I don't want to get into too much of that because you guys are like I get it. You're like, so what?

Michael 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Um I get you got your own crap, you got your life. Um but I hope that tonight's episode is something that that you leave encouraged. Yeah. You leave um maybe with a smile. We'll try to pepper in some fun stuff in between as we talk about some heavy subject of life, because life is sometimes just the suck factor is pegged out.

jess 4:52

Pretty basic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

And then sometimes it's fun. Um then if you're in the fun section, bro, ride that wave because it's fun. Absolutely.

jess 5:00

So um So before we jump into the heavy stuff, twist.

Michael 5:09

I was wondering if you were gonna join me on the lead and yet just started staring at you. I took the lead and started singing you. How sweet and adorable it is. This is very adorable. I got you boot.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

I got you back. I can't sing for crap, but I got you.

Childhood Myths And Quick Laughs

Michael 5:28

I appreciate it, Greg. Thank you, sir. So uh who's got the question? Producer Mike. Okay, so the question is this, and this is one I heard not long ago.

jess 5:41

Your ear hole friends who are listening.

Michael 5:44

Well, I didn't hear it, and I'm the one that has the headphones on, so you probably could have gotten away with it. Idiot. Uh so question question time is uh, and I think we all grew up with this relatively. Uh, what were you told as a kid that you believed? Like, whether it be your grandparents or your parents, something that they told you, like here's here's a blanket equivalent. Okay, so one time my grandfather told me that if I ate watermelon seeds, that I'd have watermelon sprouts come out of my ears. Wow. And I believed it.

jess 6:21

How about that?

Michael 6:23

So like here, I'm a little five-year-old. How much went down? I was like five or six, four or five, about that age.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Why do parents care if the kids eat the seeds? It's not that big of a deal. I don't know. Oh. Just let them eat them. Like, why fill their head full of lies? Just let them eat the seeds.

Michael 6:41

I've got another one too.

jess 6:42

But uh Um I believed that if I swallowed my gum, it would stay in my tummy forever.

Michael 6:49

Right? Really? You just never really like logic never kicked into me. So how many times did you swallow gum as a kid? Like total.

jess 6:56

A whole lot, but enough to where my nanny was like, now Jesse, you're gonna have to stop doing that. That's never gonna pass out of your belly. It's gonna stay there. That's not gonna be.

Michael 7:05

I remember doing it one time by accident and was terrified. I don't think I ever spit gum out in my entire life. I think he didn't my entire life.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

I think I've never spit a piece of gum out.

Michael 7:15

So, like in the past few years that I've known you and we've hung out and I've given you gum. Yeah, I was just swallow it. I get to the point where I'm just like, ugh done with that.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah. Can you can you do that again for me?

Michael 7:26

What is what does that sound like?

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Sorry, that's good. I had this, and this is my freaking cousin Wayne. Wayne, I'll punch you in the face if I he um there used to be these spiders in South in Georgia, they had there's these big spiders they call it riding spiders, and they're black and yellow, and they're really big, and it looks like they write things.

jess 7:49

I know what you're about to do.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

And he would always say, if you say your name in front of them, they write your name and then you'll die. And he and I would get into fit spots because he would be like he was gonna say my name in front of the spider, and I'd be like, Oh, I'm gonna have to use that. That's awesome. We would look get into it.

jess 8:07

Is that why you hate spotters?

SPEAKER_02 8:08

It could be, it could be a part of the. Oh my goodness, that is brilliant. But he did that. And now I don't know how old I was, but I was like, wait a minute, let me put this logic together.

Michael 8:19

What, like a junior or senior in high school? Yeah, that was last week. Yes. Um for me, and it's funny looking back, like my uh I had my great aunt Jean, um, which is my great grandmother's sister, and uh she would always say that whistling is an outside toy. What's the fucking toy? So like if you're inside whistling, she would always say that whistling is an outside toy. So I always re refrain from whistling unless I'm outside. My little six, seven-year-old self who's just randomly going about the house doing my chores and whistling.

jess 9:11

It was like, oh, I take like whistling is an house toward like my baby gun. I can't even have a big one.

Michael 9:19

That is the exact thing I thought of. Okay, I'll do this out somebody when I'm shooting my baby gun. I'm a whistle and shoot. Oh my god.

jess 9:32

So funny. I just thought of another one too.

Michael 9:36

Okay.

jess 9:36

Um, I'll start my grandmother. When we were riding in the car, we were not allowed to lean against the door because she was convinced that the door was just gonna fly open and we would fall out. Even if we had seen it.

Michael 9:51

We had a transition. She would go well. Well, it also depends on if you have a vehicle where the door does randomly open, because my grandfather's okay.

jess 10:03

Andy did not, but you know what's funny? If Miranda were here when they first started dating, Thomas had that giant old blazer, she literally did almost fall out. The door came open when she was. It was one of their first couple of dates.

Michael 10:16

Yes, I do remember that.

jess 10:17

She almost fell out of the car.

Michael 10:19

My grandfather had one of those uh old school, I think it was a Ford F-150. It was old school gray. And I remember because it had the bright light, the high beams was a button on the floor, it wasn't on the dash, which I thought was the coolest thing in the world in my little 10-year-old self. Um but the door was the passenger side door, you had to crack the window so you could pick the door up and then close it. But even then it didn't always latch. So yeah, it was very much a don't lean on the door if you're not wearing your seatbelt kind of well.

jess 10:48

So that maybe wasn't all the way out of the ballpark on that one.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

She wouldn't have the she's she wouldn't have the ballpark completely. I mean not completely.

jess 10:55

Like she would get torn out of frame if we had like even put your arm on the armrest kind of thing. You couldn't touch the door. You could not touch the doors of the car. No.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Oh my gosh, man. Some of some of the weird crap beards and the kids do.

jess 11:09

It's like, what?

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Don't touch the door in the car. Why?

jess 11:12

You're gonna fall out.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Oh, good stuff.

jess 11:15

Well now I know that really is a possibility.

Behind The Scenes And Sharing

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yeah, it could happen. Rare. Oh my gosh. It could happen. Well, that is a good laugh.

Michael 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

So we we we were just talking about like there there's so many things. There's uh literally so much going on right now at baggage claim, um, in the sense of we're trying to develop a lot of behind the scenes things. If you're listening to podcasts, you probably don't know anything about it.

jess 11:43

Uh but we're um I'm on a podcast and I don't know anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

So we we developed a 27 questionnaire to kind of walk through to where you fall in the nine steps. Um go take that online right now, go to unpack together.com, it'll be there. Take the inquiry, find out results of where you're at. We've been working on a lot of behind the scenes things, so it's been busy. It's been crazy.

Michael 12:06

Um and the fact that we all have jobs outside of that.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Yes, we all we all do work, so it's all extra outside of that. It's fun, extra stuff.

Michael 12:14

Which is great because like I love doing it.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

I do too. I love the sorts of when you look at um Jess and I were sitting the other m the other morning and I was like, Do you realize there's someone in Vietnam listening to your forgiveness story of how you walked what you walked through? Um and so the power of that is just incredible. So if you've heard an episode that impacted you that you loved, that you thought was good, please share it with a friend, share it with someone uh that maybe they can get something out of it. We're not we're literally not making money doing this. We're spending money. Um this is a hobby, a fun thing that we do.

Michael 12:53

And also, if I may add, um just because I think most people don't understand a lot with algorithms and stuff like that, when you like a podcast, whether it be on Spotify, whatever platform you're listening to, it takes that like and it says, okay, someone liked this, so let's put this out there for other people to listen to. So simply, and and when we say like, share, subscribe, that really doesn't do much for us other than helping get the information out to others. Yeah. So if you have an episode that you just love, go make a comment on that episode. Yeah. Because if that episode did something to help change your life or speak to you and you simply comment, well, that immediately opens up the circle of people that get to see that we simply even exist. Um so that helps a lot. You know, we we don't really make, we actually literally don't make anything if you like or subscribe or comment.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yes, literally. Nothing.

Michael 13:49

We literally don't make anything. The only thing it helps us do is be able to share our message, our stories, our testimony.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Well, we were just talking about today. I was like, what a God thing this has become.

unknown 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

We literally we're not connected with any organization, we're not connected with um uh I mean a church, an organization, nothing. It's just us through organic conversations.

jess 14:12

God told us to do.

Grief Up Close And Gratitude

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah, talking about what we love of families and blended families and and life. And we're in fifty-three countries and three hundred and twelve cities, like just off of you guys sharing. So thank you. Um but we're the subject I want to talk about tonight is we we always have in relationships you're you're going to you can call them hills, you can call them valleys, you can call them storms. Um I don't know what you want to call them, but there's not always blue skies.

jess 14:44

Not in just relationships, but just in your individual life. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

And maybe this will kind of jump from relationship, married life, blended family to just life in general. Like you may be listening to this and be like, Man, my marriage is great. But life is really, really hard right now.

Michael 15:04

Um, I'm single and it has been an incredibly heavy week.

jess 15:10

Yeah. I mean that's where we're at too. Like this week, and it's only Tuesday today when we're recording. It's like this week has been hard.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Yeah.

jess 15:18

Not you and I, but the world around us has been hard.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Yeah, so we there's just a lot that we've been faced with. For me, I I mean, and I'm I won't share. There was some and I'm not gonna use names except for my just some really, really heavy situations that happen um in our lives. And then um really, really dear uh family members of mine. She is struggling with pancreatic cancer. Um so incredibly kind to Jess and I. Um her and her husband are two of our favorite people. Um but it's come to that moment for her to say okay, we're done with treatment now. It's just about being comfortable. And those are really, really hard conversations to have because I'm looking at her kids in the room and her grandkids in the room, and and they're just they're they're undone. And I'm like, Yeah, it seems it doesn't seem fair. Um it just seems it's just heavy. And so it's you know, life has those moments, it has those those things, and it ha it's just so crazy because Sunday I'm literally sitting in the chair, you're getting ready. Uh Lucy, our granddaughter, spent the night with us and we're so we're carrying her to church. And so she and I are sitting in the chair watching Bluey, which is an amazing show. Um it is. And I I was and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, I spend so much of my life worrying about so much crap that doesn't really matter. And I'm like, here I am sitting with our 20-month-old granddaughter in my in my lap, watching Bluey. And we're gonna go to church. And it was just like man, thank you for this moment. Like thank you for this moment that I get to have of and just this overwhelming gratitude of just stopping in the moment to just kind of relax and and and enjoy and take it in. It's like Man, our lives are so busy, they're so crazy, they're so all over the place. It was taking a moment of gratitude just to soak it in, just a small moment with Lucy in the chair.

jess 17:29

Well, and the day before we got to have her on Saturday, and it was a rainy day here where we live, and we got to just stop and watch her play in a puddle on the sidewalk.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Oh my gosh, was that not a dog? Oh my gosh. It's one of those things I'm like, I I look at a puddle and I'm like, and I don't think the thing the same way she thinks about it. No. No.

jess 17:47

Well, at first she was so timid about it. And then when you showed her, I was of course videoing doing the grandma thing. But and at first she was so timid, but then she was all in like she stomped in that puddle on the sidewalk until the puddle was gone. Yes. Like it was just like you said, we we take for granted a lot of small blessings.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Because it just and I think it all hit me when I'm in this hospital room and I'm just looking around and I and I'm thinking Lucy, I'm thinking my life, uh as selfish as we all are, because we're just all selfish at some point. Because we take some horrible situation, we're like, well, what about me?

Michael 18:24

Yeah.

It Is Okay To Not Be Okay

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Um and I'm I'm just like my heart was breaking for those people because it's just hard it's just hard. Yeah. You know, there's no there's no words that make it better. There's no nothing you can do that makes it better. It's just it just sucks. And you just it's gotta be like, I'm gonna keep walking. I'm just gonna keep moving my feet. But you made the statement earlier. You said um I think this is correct. What was it saying about that?

jess 18:58

I said it's okay to not be okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Yeah, yeah. And so we don't we don't hear that a whole lot.

jess 19:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

And we don't portray that a whole lot, especially on our social media accounts. Oh gosh, yeah. Um anything else, it's not to be like sometimes you you have that person who goes on those rants constantly, and it's like, okay, get out of the ditch. You've been there for a couple months, time to get to move on. Um but we either block those or we sc scroll past those and we don't read those or look at them. Um but it's hard for us to be truthful and honest about what we're really at.

Michael 19:32

Well, there's something about society that's like and especially like in work culture, and it's not every work culture, I get that, but like sometimes it's like it doesn't matter what you're going through in your life, you still gotta produce. You still have to perform, you still have to bring in your numbers, you just gotta meet the quotas. You may be walking through a horrible life situation, but you like you're here Monday morning, like what are you what are you doing that makes you worth being here? Whereas sometimes that can be incredibly unhealthy. Now don't get me wrong, sometimes you still gotta do what you gotta do. Like you still gotta pay bills, you still have to work a job, you still gotta do what you gotta do. But many times in that we carry that over into our personal life where we don't work through heavy situations, we don't efficiently process things that we've been through. We just kind of tuck it away and hope it goes away.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

So if you're if you're in a relationship and you're in a heavy situation, you're in one of those how do you how do you navigate that if you can't share with your significant other, your husband or your wife, if you can't how what does that what does that look like?

Michael 20:44

Do we can we unpack that or is that even First off, like how do you go through that if one spouse is going through that but the other is not?

jess 20:52

Yeah.

Michael 20:53

Because I think that's where it gets dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Well, I think but uh there's an interesting spot because even yesterday, yesterday was heavy and Jess felt it. I I usually am not to be like I'm the man, I got my stuff together, um, I'm usually not the emotional one in our Okay. You're giving me the side of it.

Michael 21:13

Jess is giving a look.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

I'm I need to hear from Jess on this. I am I'm passionate. I'm not emotional, I'm passionate.

jess 21:22

I if if our four children were sitting in this room, you gotta hear what Jess thinks about. They would say dad is the more emotional one in this family. You are a big teddy bear.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

I am I am tied to my heart.

jess 21:39

You're a softy.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

I am. I I am tied to my heart.

jess 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

But most of the time I can hold it together.

jess 21:46

Most of the time you can't.

Michael 21:47

Well, and I will say there is a difference between being passionate and being emotional. And that's not the that's not the rabbit hole we're trying to chase tonight. But I think there is a difference. And I think maybe understanding. That difference could help discern how do you communicate with a spouse that is going through something emotional.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Well, I think even for Jess yesterday, like she knew I um because I'm I'm a weird guy. Like I love Jess and I love I don't want to be alone. I don't want to be by myself, but I also don't want to be like smothered. Yeah, cuddled. Yeah. And um but like yesterday, like I I would, I would as weird as it is, I would just be sitting there and I was like, I gotta get up.

jess 22:32

Yeah, you were back and forth between both of those emotions. You needed to get up, you go like take a lap outside, but then you'd come right back to where I was to be in the room where I was. And then you'd sit in that for a little bit, and then you'd go back like you were definitely battling between like what brought you comfort yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah, and then but just didn't have to like I didn't need her to say anything. And I think you knew that. Like you knew I didn't need you to make it better for me. I didn't need you to I didn't need you to do anything.

jess 23:02

You were just Well, I couldn't.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yeah.

jess 23:04

And just and so it was just uh I think it was kind of it was important to recognize for all of the things that we were dealing with yesterday, like whatever words, like we couldn't make it better for each other. Yeah. And the things that were are causing hurt.

Michael 23:21

Yeah.

jess 23:22

Um there are no words that could fix it. Which is why I think we sat in silence for literally a couple of hours. It felt like. Well, we'd say this or that and you'd complain about the birds and that kind of thing. But like as far as like like meaningful conversation, it wouldn't. It didn't it wouldn't have helped. So we didn't try.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

But I think it's but also think that's uh because when I think of hurt and I think of because we all walk through hurt and we're all going to be in it at some point in our life at some level I think it's who who is in our life at that point and who is moving with us through that is so vitally important. And I think in today's culture of we're becoming so segregated and so alone by ourselves, um it's just it's just not healthy.

Michael 24:19

It's not if we've said it once, we've said it a thousand times. The community and friends that you align yourself with make all the difference in the world.

jess 24:28

It really does. I have a close friend, I mentioned her a few times, Kate. Um, she can literally look at me and whatever countenance is on my face, she can she will literally say, I know you're not okay. You don't have to talk about it right now, but I know you're not okay. And I'm like, you're right, I'm not. And then we'll revisit it later. But she is that friend. And I have other friends too that can do the same thing, but I just I see her on a daily basis. But like I know I can just not be okay with her, but that's okay. And she's not gonna make force me. She's not gonna try to band-aid it or sugarcoat it. She's just gonna be like, yeah, this sucks. Let's talk about why it sucks. But let's talk about it.

Michael 25:13

Aaron Powell Can I ask you a question? How did that help you in your processing through whatever you want to call it, hurt heaviness, if someone just simply acknowledges it?

jess 25:26

Um Well, I can rewind time back to when TJ passed away. I had friends that would tell me, like, oh, it's gonna be okay, and you know, there's a reason and all the things. And that's true too. But I also had friends, uh one or two friends that would be like, this just is the worst. Let's just talk about like or don't talk about like let's just say it out loud. This is the worst, and I'm just gonna sit in it with you. And then we're gonna figure a way forward. I mean, sometimes it's helpful. I mean, and I still think that too. Like, even if when I come to you, Greg, and just like, let me tell you why this is bothering me or why this hurt me, like we don't always, I don't always want to figure out a way forward yet. Sometimes I just want to sit in it and just be like, I need to just feel this and it hurts and it's bothering me. But then also I know I'm going to move forward. I think it's important to acknowledge, like, no, I am not okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Dealing in the room is the most is the most direct approach, you know. It's like, but we don't do it because we don't know how to say it.

Michael 26:36

Yeah. I mean, I remember when I was going through divorce, I had a group of guys, and this was even outside of you, Greg, because we talked all the time. Um, I had a group of about five or six guys that uh once a week we would just hang out at my house or someone else's house, just grab a drink, watch a movie, get in a hot tub, do whatever, like just chill. And I just remember the first time we met, because I invited him over to my house. I was like, guys, I gotta make some different memories in this place because I was living in the same place. I was like, I just gotta I gotta move forward, whatever that looks like. I don't know. And I just remember the first night we sat in my kitchen, we ordered pizza, we were waiting on it to be delivered and just chilling. And it was kind of awkward for a little bit. But I just remember one of my friends was like, Michael, this sucks. And I hate that you're walking through this. Nothing that we can say is gonna fix this. No, but we're here tonight to show you that we're with you. And I think simply, even like you said, someone who could just acknowledge, hey, you're walking through a hard time, I may not have no clue what you're walking through. I've not I've got no clue. But I want you to know I'm here. The amount of strength that that gives a person, and I say that from my own experience, when there are things that you feel that you can't communicate, not because you don't want to, but you can't put to words what you're feeling, but just simply to know all right, he's in my corner. That makes this a little more doable to wake up the next day and keep going. Yeah. So I think how we treat that makes on whatever scale, whether it's a friend scale, whether it's a spouse scale, which I think is even so much more important to be aware of, um it goes such a long way. Yeah.

jess 28:28

It really does.

When One Partner Tries Fixing

Michael 28:29

So I've got this question. Okay. How would you work through a situation if one person's feeling that heaviness and the other person either doesn't feel it at all or kind of finds it trivial that they find hurting something like that?

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Yeah. I can understand that I'm I've I am guilty as charged of not giving things that sometimes the I don't know, credibility is the right words. Yeah, the weight that it deserves. I don't um I know that. And that's it is not a good quality. I don't think it's a good quality. It helps me in life to just keep going. I think, but I d I don't there's things that I should make a big deal out of that I don't. There's things that I should I it's vice versa.

jess 29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Would you agree with that?

jess 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

So sometimes I'm there's parts of me like, are you kidding me? Like, why? Why are we about that? Um But I'm I'm getting better. I'm learning, it's just that's my perspective.

jess 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

It's how I it's how I grew up. It's like, okay, life sucks for you. Wang, whang, whang. Yeah. You gotta get over it. You know, it's kind of like where not to say they're that's the environment I grew up in construction crew of life.

jess 30:04

Okay, not a specific example, just like a general example. If I share with you like not just say you hurt my feelings, or this is hurting my feelings right now, and I can't quit thinking about it because it makes me feel like this, whatever. And there are times where your responsibility will just quit thinking about it, just move on.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Yes, I've made that statement.

jess 30:28

But I'm just like, I can't yet. So I want you to.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

And everyone, that's not the right response that you should say.

jess 30:37

Don't don't say those words.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

So don't just say what I just did.

jess 30:40

Yeah. When what I need for you to know is I'm not okay. And so I just really need you to just kind of sit with me and even and I've even said to you too, like, even if you don't mean it, tell me like, yeah, that's the worst, or you know, just agree with me for a minute so I can feel like my feelings are validated, and then I'll be ready to move forward.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Aaron Powell See, the thing with women and men, and this is the whole difference, and you know this too. Yeah, is like when I see you hurting, I want to make that hurt go away. Like I want to fix that. And so me fixing that is solving that problem, but me solving the problem doesn't fix this.

jess 31:19

The feelings that I've done.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah, but and so women misconstrued that as like, just shut your mouth and let me sit in this. And you're like, I just want to make it better. Yeah. I'm doing this because I love you, not because Yeah.

jess 31:28

I want to fix it for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Yeah, it's like it's it's they they come from you had to look at where those come from. But I agree it's also a acknowledge that and just just because it doesn't mean something to you doesn't mean it it's not to someone else.

Michael 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

So everything everything carries different weight. Like you may hear something that just you know, like it's like you said, like it it's crazy. This really this doctor came into to my aunt's room and he's holding her hand and he's holding the the husband's hand, and he just looks at her and he goes, This sucks. And I'm sorry that you're having to go through this. This cancer is horrible. That's huge. And he just he just sits there, he's holding her hand, he's holding her husband's hand.

Michael 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

And he's just like, we've talked about this place, and we're at that place. And it's just like just addressing the heaviness of that in the room. God, it's just hard. But that's so true in relationships. Like, this is hard. Like I've I watched these TikToks, shorts, reels of you want to have a happy marriage, do these three things. You want to have a perfect marriage, do these three things. And I was like, God, I wish it was that easy. Man, I wish it was. And we've probably posted those reels too, and I'm sorry. But it's the same thing. It's like it's it's just sometimes it's just hard. It's just hard. Like it's just it's it doesn't seem bright, it seems dark, it doesn't seem it seems like you're in that endless loop. And it just doesn't feel great.

jess 33:17

And I I think we can all take comfort in the fact that it happens to all of us, no matter what we portray on social media or hey, how are you doing today? I'm great. When really no, you're not.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Can I let you in on a little secret? Every and I mean every single marriage has issues. Yes. Every single marriage has issues. So if you're listening to this and you're sitting, I don't care where you're at in the world, and you're sitting in this listening, it's going, Am I broken? No.

jess 33:48

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

You're just you're just human. And sometimes being human, trying to have another relationship with another person is just hard. Every marriage has issues. If they say they don't, they're lying to you, and that means they got bigger issues because they can't even be honest about the little issues. So rest assured, it's okay. Like if you if you're like, man, we're so jacked up, you're right. We're all jacked up.

Michael 34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

That that if I can get you to walk away with one thing tonight, that's it. You're jacked up and so are we.

jess 34:23

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

We're broken. This this podcast came from brokenness. Yes, yes, literally. Yes. All of us. So it's like the the the origin of us is broken. And then that's okay. Um it's it's all right to sit in that. It's okay to sometimes just I don't want to say mourning it, but it just sometimes can be healthy.

The Producer Friend Perspective

Michael 34:45

Sometimes mourning can be healthy. And it's part of healing. It is healthy. Yeah. And I think sometimes the dangerous place that we get in when we work through seasons of heaviness or anything like that, we become secluded.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Yes.

Michael 34:59

And again, I know this goes back to things we've said so many times, and I don't want to repeat myself, but I also want to make sure it's so intentional that we do say this over and over again. When you're alone, you're not healthy. Who you surround yourself with makes all the difference in the world because every single person in this world has multiple shallow relationships. The hey, how are you doing today at work? And we get the shallow, oh, I'm good, even though your life may be falling apart, right? But who do we have that we get to share those my life is falling apart situations with? Because many people don't have someone. Yeah. Whether that person is actually there and you just don't share, or whether you're actually sitting alone every single night because that person is not there. Who we surround ourselves with makes all the difference in the world. And I believe this wholeheartedly with the spiritual warfare that we come against. When you are alone, it makes you feel like you're alone. It makes you feel like the only you're the only person going through what you've been through. The reality is it's not true. Yeah. Chances are numerous people that you know constantly throughout your life have either walked through the same thing or are walking through the same thing. Yeah. And when we get alone, we start seeing that there might not be a way out.

jess 36:33

Yeah.

Michael 36:34

We might see that there is no other option, whether it be divorce. Well, the only way this could be fixed is divorce. Or, hey, the only way this could be fixed is if I do this, X, Y, Z, whatever. When the reality is we get so caught up in our emotions that we don't see the bigger picture. We don't see all the other routes that we could take. We don't see that, yeah, we may be in this valley, but there's actually a hill in front of us. We just keep walking. And we miss out on those things because we can get secluded and we don't share, we don't talk about these things. And I think that's just important. We surround ourselves with people that we can talk with completely unfiltered. Share what's on your heart. Yeah. No judgment, just real. Yeah. And encouragement for you to be that person for others.

jess 37:20

Yeah.

Michael 37:22

Because we as humans, we need that.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

I I think you need to hear me through this. It may take a second to get there.

Michael 37:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

I think we need people in our lives, at least one to two people in our lives, uh-huh, who are kind of those producer type people. So think of your life as a movie. Like what if people were watching your life as a movie and they're watching it and we're sitting going, what do I do? What is this? What do I what am I supposed to do? And they're like, you're watching the screen. Just think about you're watching your life as a screen, and what's the one thing that they're screaming to the top of the line is just do. Like, why are you not doing this? Like, why are you not doing this one thing? Like it's right in front of you. Like you can Yeah. You just think of yourself watching the movie. You need a friend in your life who can go, why are you why are you not doing that thing? Like, what are you doing? Like, it's so obvious. Just do that. You're like, well, I don't, I don't know what. I don't know what where to turn or where to go. Go, go here. Like it's very easy. It's very obvious. It's like because when we're watching a movie, you know, we all see that. We're just like, oh my God, here it comes. They're gonna do this.

jess 38:30

I know this is what's about to happen. Or is or is the no, don't open that door.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Right. It's like the same thing. Having someone in your life who's kind of that producer that goes, Bro, the why are you not doing this?

jess 38:44

I don't know why you can't see it, but I never thought of it in that way.

Michael 38:47

That's actually a brilliant analogy. Oh my God, you're so for people who are not understanding of a producer role, right? So, like for me, when I do studio work, recording bands, different things like that, it helps give you a third-party perspective. Yes. A full view perspective. All right. So a band will come to me and be like, hey, here's my song. These are our lyrics, these are the chords, these are the hooks, these are the guitar parts we want, it's the drum parts we want. We want to make all this happen, do it. Right. So then I come in and I start recording, and then I look from the outside and I'm like, hey, you've got a 10-minute solo going on. We might want to bring that down to two minutes, you know, or hey, you've got this one lyric line that you love, but it doesn't make sense. What if we readjusted it to say the same thing, but actually be a little more clear? So it brings a different perspective, a 30,000-foot view perspective, if you will. And you do it with someone to say, hey, look, I trust with you my life, my well-being. I trust as an artist to say, hey, I'm trusting you with my song. Let's make this the best we can be. Now, if I understand that, it means I'm gonna have to give and take on some certain elements that I may like or may not like, but I'm gonna hear you out before I make my decision. And so I the way you put that is saying, hey, having a producer to hear and see what you're doing, that is brilliant. Because that's exactly how we've acted right as I walked through divorce.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Yeah, there were times in your divorce. I I literally remember telling you, Michael, if you do this again, or I hear you've done this again, I'm going to punch you in the face. Yes. Do not, do not do that again. Period. You understand? And we're just like, yeah, but there's no yes. There's no, there's a yes or no to this. Like it'd say, like we had those kind of moments.

Michael 40:35

There were even questions where I was like, bro, this is what I'm working through. This is, you know, what she said, what I said. This is, I'm trying to work through this. This is what I'm thinking on doing. And you're like, absolutely not. Yeah. Do not. Whatever you do, do not do that. And I'm like, why? And then you explain, and I'm like, ah, that makes a whole lot more sense. You know, because many times we get caught up in our emotions, and when we get caught up in our emotions, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing because our emotions are there for a reason, but sometimes they can cloud judgment. Sometimes they can lessen our far-sightedness, if that's a weird way to say that. They can shorten our sight on what's in the future. Right. And when we're focused on the next step, we're not looking 10,000 feet in front of us. But a producer can come in from the side view and say, yeah, this one step might be two feet to the right, but look at where that ends two miles from now, three miles from now. Yeah. Are you sure that's the step you want to take? Yeah. And so looking at that as a producer, that is a brilliant analogy. It's kind of an interesting way to look at relationships in your life.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

People who are in your life. I have not to say, because I'm a nobody. I'm literally talking nicer to yourself. I'm just a dude. I'm just a grandpa. I'm a peepall that sells real estate in Gainesville, Georgia. Um But I don't there's certain kinds of people I don't allow in my life. There's certain people that I do allow in my life and I want in my life who encourage me, who push me to be better, who um I don't allow a lot of negativeness uh in there. So that's just me. That's just a decision I made as a as a guy because I realize I want people in my life who are going to be honest, but help me push me down the road.

Michael 42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yeah. So a how do we unpack this? We've been we've been talking, how do we what's our maybe not an unpack, but what's a walk away for you? Like you're it's heavy, you're in it. Why is it as a couple right now? What would you say?

jess 42:45

First you need to acknowledge that acknowledge that it sucks. Like acknowledge, hey, I'm not okay.

Michael 42:53

Yeah. But then I mean that's the first step.

jess 42:58

I mean it has to be.

unknown 42:59

Yeah.

jess 43:00

But then you gotta figure out how do I move forward out of it? What or if there's a do you have a friend in your life that can help you find it?

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Well maybe it's okay too, even for that person to say because I've I've made this statement before too. I'm here, I don't know how to get out. Like I don't know what to do, I don't know where to step forward. Um there's people out there, there's things that can help you in that process, but it's okay too to I mean, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm here and I don't know where to get out of it. Uh I don't know how to move forward. And so uh there's power in it there's so much power in acknowledging the weakness.

Michael 43:37

Um reality is it's not gonna be the same answer for everybody. No, it no absolutely not. So it's completely okay to not know the way forward.

unknown 43:45

Yeah.

jess 43:45

And also none of us know what we're doing. Like we feel like sometimes we have it together and we feel like, yeah, I'm making good choices and like I I've got my feet under me. No, you we don't know. No, we don't know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Yeah, as soon as we say That then the rug gets choked after you can do it.

jess 44:01

We do. None of us know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Then your bill statement comes up at the end of the rug.

Michael 44:04

Right? Yeah. Right. You're like, freak this. Yeah.

jess 44:08

She's like, I think everybody should take comfort in that. None of us really know what we're doing. We're just doing our best.

You Are Not Alone Reach Out

Michael 44:15

Yeah. But if you can link arms with people that you know the intention, you know the heart, meaning they want what's best for you, you want what's best for you. And I say that because sometimes in our own heart, when we get clouded with emotions, we forget what's best for us and we seek gr uh instant gratification. Whether that be how we end an argument or the heart behind winning an argument, right? No, if you truly can set your heart on wanting what's best for you as a married couple or for someone else is what they're going through, wanting what's best for them, knowing that someone else wants what's best for you as you're walking through your heaviness, your hard time, it's a lot easier to have an I don't know if open mind is the right word to say, to look at perspectives that are different from your open perspective, yeah. Yeah.

jess 45:10

But what I can say, and I think we'll all agree that our baggage clean team, like we're we want to be on your team. Yeah. If you feel like you don't have anybody else, we're I'm on your team. We'll we are your team.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Yeah. Whatever you if you're walking through, if you're listening to this and you're like, man, this is heavy. Um you can email us at info at unpack together.com. You can um you can DM us on any of our socials um to reach out. Um there's like I would love to help if we can provide resources or help. That's what we want to do. I don't want you to know I I I want you to know more than anything else, you're you're not alone. Yeah, and you're not by yourself. There's a lot of a lot of us out there who may be walking the exact same path that you are. So know that there's somebody else with you, and we're gonna be we can be okay. We just keep keep keep working, keep digging, keep looking for truth. There's always a path forward. Yeah, keep looking for love and keep looking for truth. Those are those those things always kinda come to the surface.

Michael 46:15

And anything else to add?

jess 46:19

I don't think so.

Michael 46:20

This is a slight tag on, especially if you're in a married relationship. And we've said this before. You've thrown your hat in, you've gone all in, realize there's nothing that can truly break it apart. I mean, there there are some things, but the reality is if someone's walking through something hard, fight with them. Yeah. Be with them. Yeah. Just simply show your support. Because that can that can be such a reinforcement to their own self-image, to their own mental state that no one else can give. It's true. Yeah. It's very true.

Audit Link And Final Sendoff

SPEAKER_02 46:59

Well, thank you guys for listening to that. Um wherever you're at, please like, share this, get it out. Uh go to unpacktogether.com, take the uh audit, just kind of see where you're at, see what, see where things pan out for you. It's kind of a it's free, it's a really cool just 27 questionnaire. Answer some questions. Here's we say this all the time. We say it about every time we have a group, we say it about our podcast, you're gonna get out of it, what you put into it. Yeah, yeah. So if you're honest, you're gonna get some good feedback, some good information, and we'll even help give you a roadmap of how to move forward from that. But you gotta be honest. If you're just lying and you're lying to yourself, then you you're not gonna get truth. So but go go to unpacktogether.com, take that, let us know what you think. Uh if you want to send us a text, if you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, you can send us a text straight from there. Uh we'd love to hear that if there's something going on.

jess 47:57

If you need somebody on your team, we're here for you.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Uh just just send it to us. We want to cheer for you. Uh wherever you're at in the world, it doesn't matter. I don't care if you're on the other side of the world, I'm cheer for you. Um, and be your fan. So thank you guys for listening. Thank you for being a part. And know that man, you're not on your own. Yeah, you're not by yourself. Not by yourself. So um, we'll all walk through this together holding the hand in hand. So that's it for me. That's it, yeah. Well, I gotta end with go dogs.